The Zietgeist Movement

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Major
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The Zietgeist Movement

Post by Major » Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:11 am

http://vimeo.com/13726978

If you have a couple hours to watch and listen I'd love to have a discussion on this film and the points of discussion within.

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Mel'Kaven
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Re: The Zietgeist Movement

Post by Mel'Kaven » Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:21 am

Major wrote:http://vimeo.com/13726978

If you have a couple hours to watch and listen I'd love to have a discussion on this film and the points of discussion within.
whats it about?

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Saber-Fury
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Re: The Zietgeist Movement

Post by Saber-Fury » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:15 pm

Wikipedia.com wrote:Zeitgeist: The Movie is a 2007 documentary film by Peter Joseph. It asserts a number of conspiracy theory-based ideas, including the Christ myth theory, alternative theories for the parties responsible for the September 11 attacks in 2001 and that bankers manipulate the international monetary system and the media in order to consolidate power.

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MadAce
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Re: The Zietgeist Movement

Post by MadAce » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:30 pm

I find this a tiring movement.

It's obviously American. Americans have been subjected to so much propaganda and a lot of "American exceptionalism" that when they realize it's all BS they no longer trust anything.
As a result they're suddenly very susceptible to conspiracy theories.
Zeitgeist mixes some truth with a lot of angsty BS.

Therefore the Zeitgeist movement eats up energy and indignation that could've been better used for something structurally sound.

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nine-breaker
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Re: The Zietgeist Movement

Post by nine-breaker » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:42 pm

MadAce wrote:I find this a tiring movement.

It's obviously American. Americans have been subjected to so much propaganda and a lot of "American exceptionalism" that when they realize it's all BS they no longer trust anything.
As a result they're suddenly very susceptible to conspiracy theories.
Zeitgeist mixes some truth with a lot of angsty BS.

Therefore the Zeitgeist movement eats up energy and indignation that could've been better used for something structurally sound.
I find your review of this subject very biased, opinionated, and above all moronic. Try keeping your content more factual, and I think you will find that your fellow posters will generally receive you more positively.

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MadAce
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Re: The Zietgeist Movement

Post by MadAce » Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:08 pm

nine-breaker wrote:
MadAce wrote:I find this a tiring movement.

It's obviously American. Americans have been subjected to so much propaganda and a lot of "American exceptionalism" that when they realize it's all BS they no longer trust anything.
As a result they're suddenly very susceptible to conspiracy theories.
Zeitgeist mixes some truth with a lot of angsty BS.

Therefore the Zeitgeist movement eats up energy and indignation that could've been better used for something structurally sound.
I find your review of this subject very biased, opinionated, and above all moronic. Try keeping your content more factual, and I think you will find that your fellow posters will generally receive you more positively.
Factual content. What an awesome idea.
Care to show me what that is by explaining which facts in my post are wrong?

(and why should I care about the reception of my fellow posters?)

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Re: The Zietgeist Movement

Post by JesusRocks765 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:25 am

Major wrote:Getting rid of "money" and "religion" is cold and communist, and never worked before.
Yup.

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MadAce
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Re: The Zietgeist Movement

Post by MadAce » Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:56 pm

Actually communism isn't per definition against either money or religion.

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Re: The Zietgeist Movement

Post by JesusRocks765 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:00 pm

MadAce wrote:Actually communism isn't per definition against either money or religion.
That's just on paper, what it really is is government totalitarianism when actually applied.

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MadAce
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Re: The Zietgeist Movement

Post by MadAce » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:47 pm

JesusRocks765 wrote:
MadAce wrote:Actually communism isn't per definition against either money or religion.
That's just on paper, what it really is is government totalitarianism when actually applied.
That's also untrue.

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Re: The Zietgeist Movement

Post by JesusRocks765 » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:02 pm

MadAce wrote:
JesusRocks765 wrote:
MadAce wrote:Actually communism isn't per definition against either money or religion.
That's just on paper, what it really is is government totalitarianism when actually applied.
That's also untrue.
what is your perception of comminism, good sir?

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Re: The Zietgeist Movement

Post by JuliusCaesar » Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:38 am

MadAce wrote: Factual content. What an awesome idea.
Care to show me what that is by explaining which facts in my post are wrong?
You made the claim. The burden of proof lies with you.

Communism is the establishment of a classless, moneyless, stateless system in which there is common ownership of property and means of production. Religion has nothing to do with it. Did you know there is a christian communist movement?

(From wikipedia)
Christian communism is a form of religious communism centred on Christianity. It is a theological and political theory based upon the view that the teachings of Jesus Christ urge Christians to support communism as the ideal social system. Christian communists trace the origins of their practice to teachings in the New Testament, such as this one from Acts of the Apostles at chapter 2 and verses 42, 44, and 45:

42And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and in fellowship ... 44And all that believed were together, and had all things in common; 45And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. (King James Version)

Christian communism can be seen as a radical form of Christian socialism. Also, because many Christian communists have formed independent stateless communes in the past, there is also a link between Christian communism and Christian anarchism. Christian communists may not agree with various parts of Marxism, but they share some of the political goals of Marxists, for example replacing capitalism with socialism, which should in turn be followed by communism at a later point in the future. However, Christian communists sometimes disagree with Marxists (and particularly with Leninists) on the way a socialist or communist society should be organized.

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Re: The Zietgeist Movement

Post by avitohol » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:02 am

JuliusCaesar wrote:
MadAce wrote: Factual content. What an awesome idea.
Care to show me what that is by explaining which facts in my post are wrong?
You made the claim. The burden of proof lies with you.

Communism is the establishment of a classless, moneyless, stateless system in which there is common ownership of property and means of production. Religion has nothing to do with it. Did you know there is a christian communist movement?

(From wikipedia)
Christian communism is a form of religious communism centred on Christianity. It is a theological and political theory based upon the view that the teachings of Jesus Christ urge Christians to support communism as the ideal social system. Christian communists trace the origins of their practice to teachings in the New Testament, such as this one from Acts of the Apostles at chapter 2 and verses 42, 44, and 45:

42And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and in fellowship ... 44And all that believed were together, and had all things in common; 45And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. (King James Version)

Christian communism can be seen as a radical form of Christian socialism. Also, because many Christian communists have formed independent stateless communes in the past, there is also a link between Christian communism and Christian anarchism. Christian communists may not agree with various parts of Marxism, but they share some of the political goals of Marxists, for example replacing capitalism with socialism, which should in turn be followed by communism at a later point in the future. However, Christian communists sometimes disagree with Marxists (and particularly with Leninists) on the way a socialist or communist society should be organized.
Actually the core roots of Communism lie in Christianity. Mainly the Baptist and Methodists movements starting in Wales. Groups of workers joined into communities that would later evolve into trade unions during the mid 1850's. The strikes from these trade union's would lead to social change and better working enviroments. The product of third worst and first process of industrialization in the world. Ironically Marx was there at the time. But not that many people know this since Communism is so big and the embryonic socialist movement in the UK during that period is not.

As for zeitgeist. Heard it all before. And its mostly logic in all fairness. Any rational person already had similar thoughts. The only problem is what do you do with them. And does it really matter.

Finally on the question of fact. I follow the modern skepticism school started by David Hume. Which entails the idea that fact is only that which you see, but not that which you share with another. Since your brain has already processed the information and manipulated it. Thereby the conventional sense of fact is all I love puppies.

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Re: The Zietgeist Movement

Post by JesusRocks765 » Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:33 am

Well if a community like that centered everyting around living like Christ's diciples, that would be an amazing government.

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JuliusCaesar
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Re: The Zietgeist Movement

Post by JuliusCaesar » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:24 am

Which entails the idea that fact is only that which you perceive as true
FTFY

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