corporal punishment

[kenoneill]

should corporal punishment come back to schools to put manners on the little punks

[CrazyChef]

This coming from a country with no drinking age limit lol.

[kenoneill]

This coming from a country with no drinking age limit lol.

their is an age limit, you've to be out of the womb to have a drink, although their is a campaign to get the age limit lowered

[MastrIan]

This coming from a country with no drinking age limit lol.

their is an age limit, you've to be out of the womb to have a drink, although their is a campaign to get the age limit lowered

Lol.

_______________________
Thorin | Save The Rebangs

[Moleman]

should corporal punishment come back to schools to put manners on the little punks

Should it come back? Definetly

Could it come back in our modern, 'enlightened' society? Not a chance.

I'm old enough to have went to school when teachers had the option of corporal punishment, I was only caned once and only saw it happen a handful of times in my school life but the respect we had for authority, because we knew our teachers actually had some, was 100times what I see today.

A few of my friends are teachers and the stories they tell now send shivers down my spine!

[McGrod]

No it should not be brought into schools...

Teachers should have more 'leadership' by nature. Quite a number have little life experience.
My school was quite violent some teachers we could walk right over simply because they did not know how to earn respect of the class. Other teachers theres no way we would have spoken to or did anything out of line in class ...even outside school when we saw those specific teachers we watched our behavior. Intimidation does not always work theres always someone in the class whose afraid of very little and will challenge aggression.

Geography was my worst most boring subject before I had a certain teacher, He would arrive at class on time he would make sure we were calm before entering the class he would call us by 'Mr Smith Mr Jones 'etc. HE somehow commanded respect instantly yet he wasn't built in fact most of us in first year of high school were taller than him, he was balding and had glasses that were very 'practical' sorts.
Another teacher we were at first frightened of because he was BIG and he had a powerful voice, yet he was sincere and he actually could understand us.

Then some teachers pfft .
Bringing a physical punishment would not help.

Edit: In cadets there were certain punishments but none using violence, there were consequences if you hugged up but it was all balanced and FAIR . Different Officers had different ways but I think only one out the lot in the battalion was actually thought of as 'tosser' by me.

[MadAce]

Geography was my worst most boring subject before I had a certain teacher, He would arrive at class on time he would make sure we were calm before entering the class he would call us by 'Mr Smith Mr Jones 'etc. HE somehow commanded respect instantly yet he wasn't built in fact most of us in first year of high school were taller than him, he was balding and had glasses that were very 'practical' sorts.

This. Those guys (and females of course) are awesome. They take you seriously, therefore you take them seriously.
They also know the stuff they teach.

[MadAce]

It doesn't work, other than to repress and frustrate people (which WILL create larger issues in the long term).

School should not concern itself with revenge.

[MadAce]

Your not a kid so all you can do is speculate on what kids "think" I however remember very well my early years in elementary school where the threat of corporal punishment was enough to keep me and my peers behaving. How is it not effective when we behaved in fear of being spanked? But when you get to middle school and high school corporal punishment loses its effectiveness.

I used to be a kid, was very good at being a kid and hopefully will remain very kid-like for the rest of my life.

It's not effective because it will create more problems than it solves.

It creates anxieties, frustrations and in the long run will create less stable adults.

What's the worst that could happen without corporal punishment? Some minor mischief that you can still correct using other means?

What the worst that could happen with corporal punishment?

The choice is obvious.

[-PLAGUE-]

Well, In my day, with my generation, that wouldn't go over well at all. As a matter of fact I can garuntee you that if any of my teachers should touch anyone in our class, I would beat the BBQ out of them, along with all my other classmates, we aren't pussies like back in the day. We don't care if we go to jail or if your a teacher or how old you are, in my day someone hits you you hit back, doesn't matter who it is.

[MadAce]

Well, In my day, with my generation, that wouldn't go over well at all. As a matter of fact I can garuntee you that if any of my teachers should touch anyone in our class, I would beat the BBQ out of them, along with all my other classmates, we aren't pussies like back in the day. We don't care if we go to jail or if your a teacher or how old you are, in my day someone hits you you hit back, doesn't matter who it is.

Indeed. Your generation doesn't consist of pussies.


You only refuse to do that what requires most courage of all:

Think.

[MadAce]

From my observations of where I live and from when I grew up it doesn't have many negative side effects. But your right there are better options other than giving a child a few licks. The punishment is up to the crime.

Even in crime punishment is the coward' way out, reserved for people who are so afraid of rehabilitation that they'd rather use destructive, primal tendencies than rational reasoning.

[Barefoot]

This coming from a country with no drinking age limit lol.

their is an age limit, you've to be out of the womb to have a drink, although their is a campaign to get the age limit lowered

Why are you hating on old people? I think the old war veterans should be able to drink without hitting an age limit!

[MadAce]

From my observations of where I live and from when I grew up it doesn't have many negative side effects. But your right there are better options other than giving a child a few licks. The punishment is up to the crime.

Even in crime punishment is the coward' way out, reserved for people who are so afraid of rehabilitation that they'd rather use destructive, primal tendencies than rational reasoning.

it depends on what kind of crime we are talking about here, there is a lot of grey area in that statement.

Not really, n. Punishment is utterly futile, creating an illusion of action when action is already too late. All it does is create more victims.

[Jwilson6]

Well, In my day, with my generation, that wouldn't go over well at all. As a matter of fact I can garuntee you that if any of my teachers should touch anyone in our class, I would beat the BBQ out of them, along with all my other classmates, we aren't pussies like back in the day. We don't care if we go to jail or if your a teacher or how old you are, in my day someone hits you you hit back, doesn't matter who it is.

I'm 20 years old, so I Imagine that I'm around the same generation as you and I have no idea where you ever got this idea that the people in our generation are so hard and so brave. Or that being quick to fight somehow makes you a superior person. I'm a great fighter but fighting should never be a solution. I'll tell you right now not two weeks ago me and 5 friends found ourselves cornered by a group of 20 douchebags outside of our apartment with the same kind of mentallity as you and because of their stupidity and unwillingness to come to a compromise it came to blows. Its a good thing they brought so many people cause they had to carry quite a few people away. And though we won the fight we weren't happy cause for one we weren't exempt from any pain ourselves but it never needed to come to violence, and now me and my friends have a reputation we never wanted and our neighbors hate us because quite a few of them were on the other side of that fight (Not to mention I ended up bleeding all over my favorite shirt). Someday I hope you find yourself in a situation like that and realize that not everything can be solved through violence, if they'de just listened to reason and tried to work things out like we tried to, noone would have gotten hurt, we'de probably be best of friends and I wouldn't have to worry about a bunch of roided out motherfuckers trying to test my reputation every fuckin night I try to go out and have a good time. Yes its good to be able to fight, but in my mind the ability to compromise is a much more worthy attribute and I see it much more in the older generations than I see in my own, I'll also say that as strong as any of the kids in my family have ever gotten, anytime we've tried to test our parents we've all gotten our asses beaten back into our place, and no matter how strong I get I know that even in my prime I will never be as strong or hard as my old man is now even in his old age.

[JuliusCaesar]

I'm in several advanced placement (higher than honors) classes and as such there aren't many day-to-day discipline issues, however there are still punks in my classes and they really aggravate me and the people there taking things seriously. I can only imagine the he'll that goes on in classes like the one my father teachers at the votech. He teaches freshmen and has been threatened to recieve a punch in the face several times, and I know he would be much happier to take one or two in exchange for a broken arm.

[GRAWRG.]

i cant help but draw the conclusion that ken thinks im a punk with no manners 0.o he said that plague and i were the reason he was thinking about this. i think i already posted this in the other topic.. but.. why would you allow your knowledge of how two weirdo kids act on gaming forums at home influence how you think kids at school these days act in general?

i have so many issues with this. im quiet in RL, i dont even say BBQ to the people like who deserve it. i most certainly DO have manners, but plague and joe are probably the only people on sge that could testify to that xD

i think NC down and out to the west a good bit allows corporal punishment at schools, but like dave.. you have to get your parents to sign a form. i think even if parents approved of it.. it wouldnt really be put into practice. because its awkward and outdated, not to mention the potential lawsuits that could arise?

its been stated already that there are more civil and effective ways of getting respect. and i just find it hilarious that you want corporal punishment brought back to school to teach kids manners. LOL. "WHAT? YOU'RE TALKING BACK TO ME? ILL SLAP SOME MANNERS INTO YOU!!! "

[Major]

"WHAT? YOU'RE TALKING BACK TO ME? ILL SLAP SOME MANNERS INTO YOU!!! "

rofl yeah... I never understood that, I make a few remarks and they hit me... One day I told my dad: "does it make you more of a man to hit me because I "talked back" at you?"

what did he say when you said that?

[Catfish]

Well, In my day, with my generation, that wouldn't go over well at all. As a matter of fact I can garuntee you that if any of my teachers should touch anyone in our class, I would beat the BBQ out of them, along with all my other classmates, we aren't pussies like back in the day. We don't care if we go to jail or if your a teacher or how old you are, in my day someone hits you you hit back, doesn't matter who it is.

I'm 20 years old, so I Imagine that I'm around the same generation as you and I have no idea where you ever got this idea that the people in our generation are so hard and so brave. Or that being quick to fight somehow makes you a superior person. I'm a great fighter but fighting should never be a solution. I'll tell you right now not two weeks ago me and 5 friends found ourselves cornered by a group of 20 douchebags outside of our apartment with the same kind of mentallity as you and because of their stupidity and unwillingness to come to a compromise it came to blows. Its a good thing they brought so many people cause they had to carry quite a few people away. And though we won the fight we weren't happy cause for one we weren't exempt from any pain ourselves but it never needed to come to violence, and now me and my friends have a reputation we never wanted and our neighbors hate us because quite a few of them were on the other side of that fight (Not to mention I ended up bleeding all over my favorite shirt). Someday I hope you find yourself in a situation like that and realize that not everything can be solved through violence, if they'de just listened to reason and tried to work things out like we tried to, noone would have gotten hurt, we'de probably be best of friends and I wouldn't have to worry about a bunch of roided out motherfuckers trying to test my reputation every fuckin night I try to go out and have a good time. Yes its good to be able to fight, but in my mind the ability to compromise is a much more worthy attribute and I see it much more in the older generations than I see in my own, I'll also say that as strong as any of the kids in my family have ever gotten, anytime we've tried to test our parents we've all gotten our asses beaten back into our place, and no matter how strong I get I know that even in my prime I will never be as strong or hard as my old man is now even in his old age.

I understand what you're saying here.. but disagree with a bit of it. seeing as you dont really live too far away, im going to assume that things in your city are kind of like toledo (could be better or worse, i dont remember exactly what city you live in). It sucks to fight outnumbered, but unfortunately it's something you have to deal with (and i have been jumped more than once or twice too )

You have to understand also that some people just love fighting for the sake of fighting. I know plenty of people who fight random people they have never seen in their life for no reason other than that they feel like some violence. I agree that a peaceful compromise is usually the best option.. but you can't deny the thrill of being the aggressor either

As for this generation.. they definitely care a lot less about their future and such, but they are by no means "stronger/tougher" than the people who grew up in the 90s or around there (or perhaps even before, i have young parents). I dont know how older folks are where you live Plague.. but i would suggest moving around and seeing a little more of the country before saying that. I will tell you some stories about my direct family sometime

[JuliusCaesar]

"WHAT? YOU'RE TALKING BACK TO ME? ILL SLAP SOME MANNERS INTO YOU!!! "

rofl yeah... I never understood that, I make a few remarks and they hit me... One day I told my dad: "does it make you more of a man to hit me because I "talked back" at you?"

what did he say when you said that?

I'd try similar BBQ, and get punched in the gut
when I was nine I had the BBQ slapped out of me by my shitfaced father on the fourth of July who claimed I played with the lighter he had, when he couldn't light the bottle rockets. In reality he smoked cigars the day before, but was PROBABLY drunk then too.

What happeed to me? Well now I positively loathe my father, yet I have never been in serious trouble for talking back to teachers, have a great RL attitude, and am a smart, witty, and well-liked person.

Now let's contrast this to my sister. She has never had anything denied to her, and recieved much better toys and leisure activities than I did at her age (my family had less money back when I was a lad sadly), and has never recieved a punishment crueler than being sent to her room or denied a sleepover. Yet when either happens she bawls like a baby, even though she is ten (while I never cried, I BBQ you not, past that 4th of July incident, when I was nine, and keep in mind I took some tough hits in football by people 20 pounds heavier than me and a year older).

School performance you ask? I never had any serious negative comments or issues at her age, though my sister's teacher has called my mom at least twice for a variety of offenses. I can't be sure, but I am fairly certain I was also smarter than her. Why? I studied. If I failed there would be socks under the Christmas tree. I rarely had issues with any kinds of homework, and generally would finish it on the busride home from school, or finish an entire chapter of "mathboxes" in half an hour ad have no math HW for the week. Meanwhile my sister often asks for help from either me or my father. If I deny to do so she calls him up and makes him force me to help her. And, whenever I try to teach her what she is having issues with (say basic algebra under a different name), she ignores me, shouts, or puts her fingers in her ears and starts shouting or singing gibberish.

Who will be the better person? Well unless i get involved with any drugs while maniacally depressed, and continue to marginally apply myself (fine I DO procrastinate, but she does too, we get it from my father), I'd be willing to bet I will.

Edited for typos.

[-PLAGUE-]

From my observations of where I live and from when I grew up it doesn't have many negative side effects. But your right there are better options other than giving a child a few licks. The punishment is up to the crime.

Even in crime punishment is the coward' way out, reserved for people who are so afraid of rehabilitation that they'd rather use destructive, primal tendencies than rational reasoning.

Right, so Ken is suggesting that the teachers beat the students with a paddle instead of using this rational reasoning of which you speak, yet you support his suggestion?

[-PLAGUE-]

Well, In my day, with my generation, that wouldn't go over well at all. As a matter of fact I can garuntee you that if any of my teachers should touch anyone in our class, I would beat the BBQ out of them, along with all my other classmates, we aren't pussies like back in the day. We don't care if we go to jail or if your a teacher or how old you are, in my day someone hits you you hit back, doesn't matter who it is.

I'm 20 years old, so I Imagine that I'm around the same generation as you and I have no idea where you ever got this idea that the people in our generation are so hard and so brave. Or that being quick to fight somehow makes you a superior person. I'm a great fighter but fighting should never be a solution. I'll tell you right now not two weeks ago me and 5 friends found ourselves cornered by a group of 20 douchebags outside of our apartment with the same kind of mentallity as you and because of their stupidity and unwillingness to come to a compromise it came to blows. Its a good thing they brought so many people cause they had to carry quite a few people away. And though we won the fight we weren't happy cause for one we weren't exempt from any pain ourselves but it never needed to come to violence, and now me and my friends have a reputation we never wanted and our neighbors hate us because quite a few of them were on the other side of that fight (Not to mention I ended up bleeding all over my favorite shirt). Someday I hope you find yourself in a situation like that and realize that not everything can be solved through violence, if they'de just listened to reason and tried to work things out like we tried to, noone would have gotten hurt, we'de probably be best of friends and I wouldn't have to worry about a bunch of roided out motherfuckers trying to test my reputation every fuckin night I try to go out and have a good time. Yes its good to be able to fight, but in my mind the ability to compromise is a much more worthy attribute and I see it much more in the older generations than I see in my own, I'll also say that as strong as any of the kids in my family have ever gotten, anytime we've tried to test our parents we've all gotten our asses beaten back into our place, and no matter how strong I get I know that even in my prime I will never be as strong or hard as my old man is now even in his old age.

So why exactly is everyone making off like my statement is the agressor? I'm not saying that we like to beat the BBQ out of people for no reason, I'm simply stating that if someone were to hit me, i wouldn't just sit there and do nothing, but there really is no reasoning with teachers, they think as most do, that age makes them right about everything, you and your friends had the same predicament did you not? reasoning was not possible so they hit you and if you hit back, would that make you the same as them? No not at all.

[MadAce]

Ok then what is your opinion on the proper way to deal with criminals?

Making sure it is not in their interest to commit crimes. If you have no reason to do something, you won't do it.

In theory punishment could go some way into achieving this (making crime "more expensive"), but in reality punishment does nothing to alter the motivation.

Secondly, a criminal should be rehabilitated.

As for this generation.. they definitely care a lot less about their future and such, but they are by no means "stronger/tougher" than the people who grew up in the 90s or around there (or perhaps even before, i have young parents).)

I actually consider this generation a crying waste of skin. There is so much injustice in the world, no little excuses for it and thus so much to fight for. And then they want to beat up their teacher? It's pathetic.

Now let's contrast this to my sister. She has never had anything denied to her, and recieved much better toys and leisure activities than I did at her age (my family had less money back when I was a lad sadly), and has never recieved a punishment crueler than being sent to her room or denied a sleepover. Yet when either happens she bawls like a baby, even though she is ten (while I never cried, I BBQ you not, past that 4th of July incident, when I was nine, and keep in mind I took some tough hits in football by people 20 pounds heavier than me and a year older).

You can't extrapolate a trend from a single piece of anecdotal evidence.

Also, sparing the rod =/= spoiling.

From my observations of where I live and from when I grew up it doesn't have many negative side effects. But your right there are better options other than giving a child a few licks. The punishment is up to the crime.

Even in crime punishment is the coward' way out, reserved for people who are so afraid of rehabilitation that they'd rather use destructive, primal tendencies than rational reasoning.

Right, so Ken is suggesting that the teachers beat the students with a paddle instead of using this rational reasoning of which you speak, yet you support his suggestion?

What makes you think I support his suggestion?

So why exactly is everyone making off like my statement is the agressor? I'm not saying that we like to beat the BBQ out of people for no reason, I'm simply stating that if someone were to hit me, i wouldn't just sit there and do nothing, but there really is no reasoning with teachers, they think as most do, that age makes them right about everything, you and your friends had the same predicament did you not? reasoning was not possible so they hit you and if you hit back, would that make you the same as them? No not at all.

Has it ever occurred to you that in a situation such as one where you are hit by a teacher it might be beneficial not to hit back?

See my remark about your lack of courage to think.

[JuliusCaesar]

Perhaps I can't judge the effects of tough punishment on future behavior using one instance, but in this instance it is certainly needed. I just was woken up from my sister and my father in a shouting match over, guess what! The laptop my sis is using is low on batteries and she refuses to plug it in causese is too lazy to get up, and instead tells my dad something is wrong with it. When he tells her what's up she refuses to believe it, and later demands my dad gets up o bring her the charger.

Also, yesterday I had to stop in mid-poop to open up the front door when she started ringing the bell 20 times, and when I asked her if she had her key, she said, "yes, but it's only for when nobody's home." so...instead of taking out your key when you get off the bus, you bother other people...right.

[-PLAGUE-]

It might be beneficial for the teacher not to touch me in the first place unless that teacher would like a bloody nose and has no particular care for their teeth.

[MadAce]

It might be beneficial for the teacher not to touch me in the first place unless that teacher would like a bloody nose and has no particular care for their teeth.

I'm sorry. All this time I thought you simply refused to think. Now I realize you are unable to.

At least you have a handy space to keep spare keys and such. Between your ears.

[kenoneill]

i love how a thread about me spanking grawrg( i threw in plague's name to throw ppl off) sparked such a debate.
but seriously, my idea to put manners on kids nowadays involves having mandatory national service for all 18 yeasr olds. it would be 3 months long and for everytime you seriously misbehaved from 10 years old to 18 would lead to a month tacked on.

[MadAce]

i love how a thread about me spanking grawrg( i threw in plague's name to throw ppl off) sparked such a debate.
but seriously, my idea to put manners on kids nowadays involves having mandatory national service for all 18 yeasr olds. it would be 3 months long and for everytime you seriously misbehaved from 10 years old to 18 would lead to a month tacked on.

So you would scar those who are physically not able to understand the consequences of their actions as they have undeveloped brains by punishing them with a process which was invented to expedite the act of military mobilization and has no proven positive result on mental welfare or correcting undesirable behavior?

And people wonder why I'm against democracy...

[-PLAGUE-]

It might be beneficial for the teacher not to touch me in the first place unless that teacher would like a bloody nose and has no particular care for their teeth.

I'm sorry. All this time I thought you simply refused to think. Now I realize you are unable to.

At least you have a handy space to keep spare keys and such. Between your ears.

LOL madace I honestly expected at the very least a semi-intelligent answer to that comment, but it would appear you've lowered yourself to tossing out insults in the debate instead of giving a half decent response. So if you go against my logic, and by doing that you compliment the topic. Then afterwards say that you are against the topic, what does that prove?

That although your response was related to the original topic, it was only a comment meant to bash my posts which was based completely on the topic in response.
So I don't know if I should go as far as to say that you weren't interested in the topic at all, rather you were aiming to belittle the responses of the community in an attempt to look more intelligent, and in doing that I wouldn't be surprised if you've lost some respect. That is of course if you had any to begin with.

[Jwilson6]

It might be beneficial for the teacher not to touch me in the first place unless that teacher would like a bloody nose and has no particular care for their teeth.

Wow... this is the result of a bunch of panzy donkey parents who refused to hit their child when he soo obviously needed it. And because of their lack of action that responsibility of correcting his mental deficiency is going to fall to some other equally retarded motherfucker in a bar or a party or a street or whatever who is going to have to beat the living BBQ out of him so he can learn some humility.
And plague, thats not an if, I've known many people like you and I can say with absolute certainty that if you really act like this in real life and its not just some internet badass persona your trying to put on, thats its only a matter of time before this happens to you, if you don't end up in prison first. I just hope when the day comes where you run into your jacked out counterpart that he atleast will have the sense to leave you breathing.

"It is best to win without fighting" -Sun Tzu