Customizable ships

Ideas for improving Starport:GE

Moderators: Moleman, Kwijibo, Luna

Would customizable ships improve the game or make it more fun?

Yes.
67
87%
No.
9
12%
I am uncertain.
1
1%
 
Total votes: 77

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Michael2
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Post by Michael2 » Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:16 pm

Cheesy wrote:
Catfish wrote:sweet mother of god, am i supposed to actually read all of that?? whitenovas right :P
guy who made this thread wrote:I languished over where to post this... it's a ship idea but doesn't fit the format milo started, so, sorry if it's in the wrong place.

SGE Ships

SGE has a good selection of ships for different purposes; however, I think the structure of ship selection is being underutilized. Part of the fun with MMORPG’s is customization. For some players, that means appearance. For others, it is all about performance. For most, I think it is a mixture. If I were making my own space MMORPG, the ships would definitely have to be hand built, customizable affairs (with basic starter ships pre-built, of course).

A great deal of satisfaction can come from slowly upgrading a ship one piece at a time as parts become available. In RPG MMORPGS, the customization comes from equipping the character. You have armor, shields, rings, swords, bows, potions, necklaces, etc. In SGE, the spaceship is the character. Currently the game play progresses with no reward for long periods of time, then all of a sudden you can buy a gun ten times as powerful. Progress needs to be more gradual and spread out over a longer period of time to hold player interest.


If I could design the ship interface, it would be something like this. Ships would consist of an empty hull that can be configured to accomplish the players goals (or purchased preconfigured from a merchant). Each hull would have maximum internal mass and critical dimensions that can be utilized. This concept has been utilized in “Mech Warrior” games as a drag and drop interface with much success. The terms used in mech games are usually weight and critical spaces.

I’m proposing using mass and dimensions, not just to rehash a similar concept, but make it more applicable for a space environment. Also, each hull type would specialize in boosting one particular component attribute that was placed inside the ship, such as shield strength or power output or self repairing nannites or stealth capabilities or warp travel time, etc.

This allows for a player to choose a ship that will best serve the components he wants to build into the ship. Therefore, there may be several similarly sized chassis that have very different characteristics. This leads to ship designs that may have strength in one system, but sacrifice strength in another. In other words, a ship isn’t necessarily better, but different. It allows specialization of ship function that gives the player a high degree of control without allowing any one design to be too powerful. Of course, there will be different classes of ship size that could obviously be used to make a more powerful ship, but simply getting a bigger ship will not be an upgrade, as it will now be slower due to the added mass unless a player upgrades power supply, engines, etc.

To some degree this specialization already exists in SGE, but is not customizable. With a customizable interface, that control is in the hands of the player instead of the game designer. No longer will the game designer hear “I want a ship that does this” or “I want a ship that does that”. Now it is up to the player to build it. The designer simply moderates by balancing the attributes of the internal components, with a few, rare, overpowered items introduced occasionally, perhaps with a limited lifespan or number of uses.


Here are three examples of possible ship builds:

Player 1 chooses to load three impulse engines into his ship instead of the standard single engine. This makes the ship very, very fast within the solar system. Also, he installed a high end warp drive so others can’t outrun him through warp gates. Unfortunately, he had to triple up on power supplies to drive the engines, which reduced additional components he could carry.

He has decent internal mass left over for cargo, but because of the critical dimensions of the engines and warp drive he chose, the weapons he can equip are low end. Also, he has mediocre shielding because he wanted to retain good cargo hauling. Most of the time he can rely on speed to outrun anything in the galaxy and make a huge profit while doing it, but if his engines get disrupted by an EMP mine or a rocket disruptor, he hasn’t got much chance in a dogfight. Sometimes he gets stuck when he is fumbling around to hit a warp gate, because he only had enough power supply for a low-end autopilot controller.


Player 2 takes the low key approach because he is a newbie. He uses minimal low end components throughout the ship to retain a low electronic signature. Because of his low ES, most of the big warships can’t even get a target lock on him. He has learned that the higher ES a ship has, the more expensive targeting computer it takes to lock onto a “low ES” ship. He could shoot at the big warships, but it would take a very long time to get through their shielding and armor. They would just laugh at him unless he had a swarm of friends.

He creeps around the galaxy, going largely unnoticed and doing whatever he wants unhindered. It’s a slow way to progress, but safe. His nightmare is the rare veteran newbie killer that has spent billions on a small ship with a targeting computer sensitive enough to punch through high ES weapons and shields to pick up his low ES ship on radar. When this happens, he tries to fly toward the big battleships, knowing they can easily target the high ES veteran foe and gladly kill him for high XP. He only has to hope he can find one quickly. He’ll be glad when he can afford a better ship and not be wary of the rare newbie hunter.


Player 3 is a killer. He’s not fast, but he doesn’t have to be. He’s armed to the teeth and ready to break veteran players. He’s equipped mine launchers and loaded out EMP mines. Whatever ship steps foot into his hunting ground will lose power immediately. If the prey has too small of an ES to lock onto, he’ll reset his trap and watch it scurry away. If it’s a prize big enough to target, he fires missiles as he closes on the target, switches to lasers when the missiles run dry, and fires his devastating cannons as he gets to point blank range. He can destroy an average veteran ship in a hurry. He had to use a big, heavy hull to equip this much weaponry, so he is very slow, he can’t take a lot of damage himself, and if something runs away he’ll never catch it.

He is forced to prepare a position and wait for a foe to stumble into it. He can’t target the smallest ships because he didn’t have enough money to afford the incredibly expensive “high ES” targeting computer, which makes him vulnerable to coordinated attacks from low ES vessels. He’s like a brute with a very big club but a slow swing. He also hopes another well armed brute doesn’t come along, as his shields may not hold up.
As you can see, configurable ships add a great customizable element to the game. Also, it allows for better use of specialized character classes.

You can create mechanic professions to modify advanced ship configurations, engineer professions for player crafted engines, weapon specialists for advanced weapons, theoretical physicist professions for advanced shields etc. Instead of programming in new items or systems, you could allow a way for players to “invent” new technologies every few months by doing research in their field of specialty. It would create more interdependence between Bartle types (http://www.guildcafe.com/bartle.php ). It would allow for rare ship components to be gathered by explorers as well (sort of like artifacts are now). If a particular ship configuration is too powerful, the individual components can be nerfed instead of the whole ship.

For example, make shield generators more massive or less massive or increase the critical dimensions, etc. Also, the introduction of electronic signature keeps fights on a level playing field for the most part. A veteran player could spend incredibly large amounts of money on a “high ES” targeting computer to be able to attack newbies, but the money would be more efficiently spent protecting himself from veterans. High dollar targeting computers could be made un-insurable, to increase the risk of buying them. Here are some random examples of ship hulls:

Ship A: Internal Mass = 100 Dimension = 80 Weight = 100, +10% raw material handling capacity
Ship B: Internal Mass = 150 Dimension = 60 Weight = 150 +15 percent power supply output
Ship C: Internal Mass = 120 Dimension = 150 Weight = 120 +10% shield generator output

All of the components that go into the ships would have six attributes that affect how well they would work with various hulls and other components. Also, regions of solar systems could be made to affect ship attributes differently. For example, certain high gravity suns could wreak havoc on missile function, or high heat suns could overheat ship systems faster, requiring ships to incorporate more cooling to operate effectively in a given region. Players might have to adapt their ships to perform optimally in a given sector, or deal with a performance handicap if they choose not to.

Here are the basic component attributes, some of which I have fleshed out, some of which I have not.

Component Attributes
Mass
Dimensions
Weight
Electronic Signature
Heat generation
Power consumption

Mass - Every component has mass. Every hull has a maximum mass that it can hold. Ergo, mass limits how much “stuff” can go in a ship.

Dimensions – Sometimes a part just won’t fit, even if it is low mass. Dimension accounts for the odd sizes of parts. Sometimes these are rare, advanced, or experimental parts.

Weight – Every component adds weight to the ship, which reduces acceleration and handling. Most cargo types add weight as well. Some of the heaviest weight comes from armor.

Electronic Signature – All components add electronic signature that makes a ship more detectable to enemy targeting sensors. Some components add very little, while some are very “noisy”. Some components are especially designed for lower ES than a standard part, making them more valuable. Also, stealth emitters generate anti-energy waves, lowering a ships overall ES. Normally, you would want as low an ES as possible.

Conversely, all of this ES noise can make it hard for your own ship to target enemies. A basic computer allows you to target enemies that are lower than 15% of your own ES. By spending extraordinary amounts of money, it is possible to buy a targeting computer that targets smaller ES ships.

Heat – Most components generate heat. If you generate too much heat, one or more of your components could shut down, burn out or explode. Engines, power supplies and lasers are usually the biggest culprits. Also, “over-clocking” components can increase the risk of overheating. There are coolant systems that can reduce heat. Certain solar systems will be hotter than others. Proximity to stars will be a factor as well.

Power consumption – It takes a lot of power to run a starship. If there isn’t enough power, components will function poorly or not at all. Nearly all components consume power, so if you don’t plan carefully you’ll find yourself short on power.

Component Types

Engines
Impulse (Intra-sol)
Warp (Inter-sol)
Maneuver
Brake

Armor
(Placement can be changed to protect specific areas)
High Weight – basic armor effective against all weapon types
Low Weight – advanced, lower weight for improved speed, acceleration
Reactive - good against missiles, cannon
Refractive - good against lasers and plasma

Shields
Traditional-fixed power cell
All or none – shields hold at full or collapse completely
Regenerative – behave like traditional but recharge from power source
Sub component: Balance effectiveness against different weapon types
Reflective – Redirect laser attacks back at attacker, ineffective against other weaps

Weapons
Missiles – limited missiles per ammo case, long range,
Lasers – normal range, overheats enemy as it damages
Cannon - limited shells per ammo case, massive damage
Phased Plasma – advanced alien tech, massive damage, long range
EMP – disrupt electronics and/or power of enemy
Mine/Beacon launcher – deploy mines,
Ammo Case – holds ammo!!!

Coolant
Prevents overheating and meltdown of various systems

Electronics and Accessories
Targeting sensor array – to attack at all, (pinpoint enemy systems?)
Tactical sensor – Can “snapshot” an enemy ship configuration for study
Navigation – Inter-solar and warp jump data
Probe – Intra-sol data
Cloak – Reduce electronic signature
Galactic Map
Shield Disruptor
Warp Disruptor
Signature Generator - Imitate the ES of large ships on Navigation sensors or attatch a large signature onto a smaller ship for targeting
Chafe – missile counter measure-limited ammo
Plasma diffuser – plasma counter measure- uses high power
Jammers – Reduce tactical sensors of others, raises ES

Power Source - Heart of ship, provides power for all components, varying mass, size, output, etc.
Nuclear
Solar Panels –
Anti-matter
Batteries – used as a buffer between reactor output and ship usage

Cargo – Cargo is basically unused space on the ship. Raw materials can be hauled in an amount equal to whatever mass is left over. Finished products, like turrets, engine parts, would also require a certain amount of dimensions to be available in addition to mass.

A new concept that can be added to the game with customizable ships is component damage and failure. In combat, a specific component might be damaged and loose function. As a result, it would need to be repaired or replaced. Repairing and replacing these components might require certain tools or help only available from another player specialized in a certain profession, or maybe it would be much cheaper through another player.

These are just preliminary thoughts on ship customization. I’d like to continue adding details to my idea, but would like some feedback from the game designers on what it would take to make this a reality. I realize it would require a lot of work. I would be willing to help in whatever capacity I could. Also, community feedback would be good.

Edit: Sorry about the poll. Just saw the guidelines.
BBQ that took forever
i take it you never made it outta picture books cat XD
Definetly Not Then ...

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Mel'Kaven
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Post by Mel'Kaven » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:30 am

Love it, I was gonna post something like this but I type slow lol.

Excellent might I add.

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NeatLogs
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Post by NeatLogs » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:25 pm

What was your idea like? Sort of like BMF1000D's 'from the ground up' redo of ship stats or something else? We more ideas to compare.

I was thinking that all we really needed in way of stats was the ones we get now on our ship pages. What would be really good is if we can work out some sort of system that makes the regular ships we can buy at our starbases fairly optimised. As in, it would take time to work out how to build a ship that is better than the ones being sold. That might be difficult. It'd be bad if people in a modified dreamsower could compete with an ISC or Seth in combat.

The true difficulty would be to make sure the above is true AND make it easy and simple to understand,

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ComradeKev
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Post by ComradeKev » Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:10 pm

If the devs wanted do this on the most simple of levels for starters, how about allowing us to choose/change/buy any of the current list of secondary weapons for our ships.

I think there would be a minimal of code needed to accomplish this (only the gui for the selection perhaps) and all the rules/logic/graphics already exist for those weapons.

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Cheesy
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Post by Cheesy » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:37 pm

ComradeKev wrote:If the devs wanted do this on the most simple of levels for starters, how about allowing us to choose/change/buy any of the current list of secondary weapons for our ships.

I think there would be a minimal of code needed to accomplish this (only the gui for the selection perhaps) and all the rules/logic/graphics already exist for those weapons.
ill take the IGS with the pod special then.

if all the ships in the game had the same sheilds and speed, the vulture and the pod would reign supreme, the freighter and cruiser would also be the next strongest. if those specials could be given to the top class ships then thats way to over powered, cause the top ships have shitty specials compared to some of the lower ones, if i had an igs with avenger special i would go for that when startin on a new perma, the avenger is probably the closest ship from the lower clas to the top class, hell it and a few other deserve their own class,
-ower class: cruiser, freighter, falcon, marauder, flower---some, very little value
-mid class: Avenger, vulture, barge, speedstar, whale--- known and respected value, Avenger for its delasering and baracade running as well as a good early on ship for rebangs, vulture when in thr right hands can be a great invading ship even with some high solars, other wise its ok at delasering if say your trying to vulture a solarless col then delaser, the barge is probably the most used for its 24 holds, its good at moving equiptment. speedstar is the scout of the game because of its low fuel consumption its good for sleeper hunting and taxi missions, a bit pricey though. whale- good for early in a rebang when trading and for neg rep peeps without tokens who arent ceos to build
-Top class: IGS, ISC, seth, CEO, BattleS--- ships that primarily used, each with their own greatness and to different individuals, each have been regarded as the best- IGS- good speed, good turning, pretty nice 2nd wep, ISC- strong 2nd wep, nice speed, Seth- 2nd wep provides a tactical advantage in a 2v2 or higher, good turning, CEO- 2nd wep provides an advantage in long range vs short range fighting and is also great when utilized with mines and lasers, 16 holds for those mines and laser, also for pinning and nuking, BattleShip: cheap, the best 2nd wep of the top ships for invading

i thinl i ranted a bit too much there o well any way the first aspect id like to see is color options, followed by spoilers and decals for ur ship, i dont expect those too soon but i suspect PTT may be working on color options for ur ship:D whatchout for my orange ISC when that happens,

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Post by Tomaj » Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:59 am

i like this idea it takes the focus of "fly from point a to point b, sell and buy or drop off passenger and pick up another" and put it on geting that next part for your ship then the once its all set up it would be more fun to play the game. i've mostly quit due to lack of enjoyment, this could be a boost for old and new players alike. however don't expect it any time soon if they pick it up. an idea that may improve this is to leave the ships as they are but make them customizable so the starter ship has the least space and the imperial star cruser would have a massive hull. this give you, weapon points to witch your weapons would be both limited to and mounted to, thus forceing you to chose missiles to take out shields and lasers for when your out of missiles.

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pewpewpew
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Re: Customizable ships

Post by pewpewpew » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:35 am

Most of these suggestions would change starport into another game altogether.. BUT
The customization of your ship's space is perfectly acceptable. two weapons or more shields? :)

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Mel'Kaven
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Re:

Post by Mel'Kaven » Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:43 am

NeatLogs wrote:Let me explain. If customisation only involved painting your ship, it would be fun for all of ten minutes. Maybe 3 hours if there were some awesome options and a major graphics overhaul.
Fun for 10 minutes is better than clicking on isc, grav, battles, 16k sheilds and 150 holds :wink: and it wouldn't have graphic problems your ship isn't that detailed to begin with its just a bunch of dark colors that have light from the sun on them, dont be such a nazi just agree with us becuz we all know u wanna go down to fight ty the wicked in a pimping purple isc :lol:

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Raviel-PLAGUE-
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Re: Customizable ships

Post by Raviel-PLAGUE- » Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:30 am

well, i mean theres a lot that cant be done to be the way you'd like it, although you have high ambitions these games take time you have to realize that toonces cant just up and put in a code and change the whole game, i think the most believable and easy way to accomplish this task to some level is a different type of progression, one suggestion from my friend, the more experience you have, the more shields you get, but only by a slight degree like 1,000,000 xp= 100 shields this way its not to easy for someone with high xp to lose all they worked for, and the game is actually more challenging considering the struggle to win rather than just skill and coordination, i believe that can be done, one more thing you mentioned is the drag and drop and superior weapons ideas, for a 2d game i dont think drag an drop accessories would be to hard a thing to accomplish huh? and as far as weapons go again i think that should be based on experience not just randomly, the people who have the chance to wield a weapon so powerful should be the people that deserve it for all their hard work, but they cant have that as an unfair advantage so it should always be temporary, i think all of that is clearly within the limits of the game, anything else you said, great ideas, but would take a long time possibly years to implement and unless toonces was willing to take a chance by shutting down SGE to make a newer better version which i dont think any of us would like, it cant be done, and you know it cant be done in patches because these things just dont come 1 by 1 they are huge tasks that take a lot of time and effort. one last thing i want to mention, i think the draw of this game has a lot to do with its simplicity and the idea that every player gets a fair chance at being the best out there, its draw is that it is simple and easy just requiring skill and prowess and coordination, if you make it to complicated its no better than a 2d game of runescape, just a bunch of confusin crap about potions and weapons noone knows or cares about till eventually people get tired of working for it, most people in the world play things like wow and eve online and that great for them but us, we got this 2d space game thats great fun and more competitive than any other game outthere because its short list of people at the moment, i say if nothing else we should be happy with what weve got and thank toonces for bringing us all together to play such an entertaining game. ^.^ u know im one for speeches and im very opinionated so sorry you gotta read it all :P

Major.Arse

Re: Customizable ships

Post by Major.Arse » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:32 pm

No one will read any of your posts if you don't break up the text.

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Raviel-PLAGUE-
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Re: Customizable ships

Post by Raviel-PLAGUE- » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:43 pm

Yes Yes, we all think the idea is amazing but i can tell you starport is no democracy no matter how many players want it it's just not going to happen.

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Re: Customizable ships

Post by Catfish » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:53 pm

Developer's Blog wrote:On the horizon, we have several large areas of improvement we hope to get into as soon as possible. These are: Ship customization (to create a much greater range of possibility in ship construction), colonial shipyards as an upgrade to the weapons factory allowing colonies to build ships, more and wider variety of artifacts, and better looking interface screens.
Please, please, please start doing some research before you shoot down any more ideas

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MutedJazz
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Re: Customizable ships

Post by MutedJazz » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:55 pm

I love you catfish.

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Woots
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Re: Customizable ships

Post by Woots » Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:09 am

Yes, we all love Catfish!

Still, sometimes I dream of a portable Solar that is aimed by the mouse XD
10/120 on a ship would pwn

CATFISH ROCKS!

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Re: Customizable ships

Post by Catfish » Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:28 am

would certainly "spice up" space combat :roll:

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Re: Customizable ships

Post by tekkamanblade » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:26 am

i read the first post down to the part where u said mechwarrior and i skipped the entire thread after that. why? because mechwarrior was all you needed to say to get my support. the battlespace ship design mechanics should be implemented immediately and this cookie cutter garbage trashed pronto. for anyone that is totally nub to this mass and slots system, download the free trial version of starscape by moonpod. it excellently demonstrates how quick and easy the system actually is to pick up on.

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