Shrinking Population?

[CrazyChef]

Since the new patch it looks like populations are shrinking on cols even though they are balanced, making the right resources even untaxed? is it just me... or has anyone else noticed this?

[TT]

Only thing I can think of is you aren't producing enough of resources in deficit...

For example An earthlike, although uses more then it produces, still gets a bonus some of the time for anaerobes.

However if you were to zero the harvest on Anaerobes, even if still producing the other three will have a smaller pop then the same earth before the patch.

[ArdRhys4]

Jejeje, that is why you put it at 1%;)

[Luna]

I'm having the same issue. I get a planet balanced where it's making enough of the things it needs, and I've got tax reasonable or turned off. I leave, come back in a week, and suddenly I have a colony that's only a 6-8.5k. I can't figure out what the deal is.

The settings that appear to be ideal, for a specific type, don't actually mean much. They shrink, pollute, and if they shrink then they start to go negative on things like ore if they weren't making a bunch extra. I'm having to check, and recheck planets constantly. It's beyond annoying. I think the refinery is lying to us. I'm not convinced what it says is actually accurate to what it's really doing.

[Major.Arse]

I think the refinery is lying to us.

...i thought i was just being crazy as i have no evidence

[CrazyChef]

I'm having the same issue. I get a planet balanced where it's making enough of the things it needs, and I've got tax reasonable or turned off. I leave, come back in a week, and suddenly I have a colony that's only a 6-8.5k. I can't figure out what the deal is.

The settings that appear to be ideal, for a specific type, don't actually mean much. They shrink, pollute, and if they shrink then they start to go negative on things like ore if they weren't making a bunch extra. I'm having to check, and recheck planets constantly. It's beyond annoying. I think the refinery is lying to us. I'm not convinced what it says is actually accurate to what it's really doing.

yeah its weird!

[Vic]

I'm having the same issue. I get a planet balanced where it's making enough of the things it needs, and I've got tax reasonable or turned off. I leave, come back in a week, and suddenly I have a colony that's only a 6-8.5k. I can't figure out what the deal is.

The settings that appear to be ideal, for a specific type, don't actually mean much. They shrink, pollute, and if they shrink then they start to go negative on things like ore if they weren't making a bunch extra. I'm having to check, and recheck planets constantly. It's beyond annoying. I think the refinery is lying to us. I'm not convinced what it says is actually accurate to what it's really doing.

yeah its weird!

Yes i am having the same prob,doesnt make sense

[Major.Arse]

Bump, I'm still losing followers to this. It seems server-wide and completly random. Its either a bug or I'm missing something. I wish i could take a screenie of a before and after...but I dont know which cols it will happen to next.

...any suggestions?

[Armor]

Bump, I'm still losing followers to this. It seems server-wide and completly random. Its either a bug or I'm missing something. I wish i could take a screenie of a before and after...but I dont know which cols it will happen to next.

...any suggestions?

Yeah. Play a real game.

[Suave]

This is happening to me also a bit /:

[Zaphod]

Its happening to me too, i had an earthlike with 19k pop and 2 days later its at 16k, and i did not change it at all, its screwed up and should be fixed pain in the butt to keep fixing them

[Major.Arse]

right. but this is happening on 5k's

[CrazyChef]

i got a volc w/ 64 pop and shrinking

[TT]

This is entirely possible depending on what your settings are

[Major.Arse]

it shouldnt be possible. i understand how settings work (i think) the point is the ref seems to not be telling the truth.

[TT]

I guess I just don't really understand what you guys are trying to say.

Since the refinery patch I've been able to make colonies more stable then ever before

Although it is a bit confusing I've pretty much figured out how to stabilize planets at desired populations, so I'm not getting these problems at all.

Burnout

[ArdRhys4]

Same. It took me all of 2 hours to get the ref. stabilized on all the planets I have left(Jejeje, don't have many right now, there are SOME benefits to quitting and coming back without expanding much)

[Luna]

it shouldnt be possible. i understand how settings work (i think) the point is the ref seems to not be telling the truth.

I've had my corpmates tell me I'm seeing something different than what they see when they go to the same planets. On more than one occasion I've found, complained, and adjusted planets that were down from 10k to 5-8k in a week. Those were previously balanced.

They claim they've visited the same planets and found nothing showing wrong with them, and they aren't shrinking or going negative on resources. Why would we both see different things on the display?

I think the refinery isn't displaying correctly. I'm going to move this to Engineering in case it's a bug.

[TT]

Is this only on classic?

I've got about 300 or so colonies between my servers and have not noticed anything like this at all myself, but I don't play Classic.

Burnout

[Catfish]

Is this only on classic?

I've got about 300 or so colonies between my servers and have not noticed anything like this at all myself, but I don't play Classic.

Burnout

same here, havent noticed anything of the sort

[Barefoot]

it shouldnt be possible. i understand how settings work (i think) the point is the ref seems to not be telling the truth.

I've had my corpmates tell me I'm seeing something different than what they see when they go to the same planets. On more than one occasion I've found, complained, and adjusted planets that were down from 10k to 5-8k in a week. Those were previously balanced.

They claim they've visited the same planets and found nothing showing wrong with them, and they aren't shrinking or going negative on resources. Why would we both see different things on the display?

I think the refinery isn't displaying correctly. I'm going to move this to Engineering in case it's a bug.

Luna, this is simply a case of some vets and a LOT of non-vets not completely understanding how the partial consumption and partial harvest of resources works. I'll keep using Burnout's example of an earth-like and anaerobes.

BEFORE the patch, to keep anaerobes from shrinking completely to zero when inevitably left on a negative gather rate, you still received a small stipend of anaerobes that is based on the percentage of harvest. Since this percentage of anaerobes harvest wasn't adjustable, it was usually a very low percentage and never gained the bonus for having anaerobes in the refinery - I think the cut-off for this bonus is around 12 anaerobes in the refinery, give or take a few.

AFTER the patch, it's quite easy to devote more of the harvest percentage to anaerobes on the earth-like planet. this allows the planet to be set to harvest enough anaerobes that each time resources are gained, the amount of anaerobes in the refinery goes above the cut-off for the pop and morale bonus of having 'enough' anaerobes in the refinery - even if the gather rate is negative! The amount will slowly dwindle, and when it falls below the cut-off (again, I think it's around 12 anaerobes), the pop and morale bonus is lost until resources in the refinery are gained again momentarily (i still haven't figured out how often that happens. it's often enough that you think the refinery is lying to you by changing).

The implications of understanding how this works are wonderful, not nightmarish. This partial harvesting of anaerobes can be controlled based on how much of the time you would like the col to be receiving the bonus (thus gaining pop and morale) and how much time you would like the col to not be receiving the bonus (keeping pop under control). For a 10k pop earthlike, I've found that at 7% tax, democracy, and positive growth rates of other resources, leaving an otherwise 'stable' colony at -50 anaerobes/hr will grow the colony to 12kish pop with a bit of a morale penalty at that level. If I choose to harvest less anaerobes, say -100/hr, the colony will drop in population to around 8k pop and gain morale a little better. This likely explains why colony populations and morale are different from what you thought they would be when you left them. It also explains why we should be thanking Toonces for allowing builders to have such control over colony settings. It actually makes balancing colonies easier, as pop is easier adjusted using partial consumption.

BTW, this also works great with any planet type. I usually have mounts partial harvest anaerobes, arctics partially harvest orgs, GH partially harvest meds... ect ect ect. Play around, and you'll find ALL of your colonies can have higher populations and receive more tax revenue with this methodology.



FourTwenty

[Crimson]

I havent seen any of these problems on 5k's or the planets i have at 15k+ The refinery isnt lying to me, all the planets are stable.

[Barefoot]

The only time people think the refinery is lying to them is when they have partial resources in the refinery and they have a temporary resource bonus.

they can either use that to their advantage or continue to let it fool them when resources are partially harvested and consumed.


420

[CaptKirk]

I don't know if the refinery is lying or what, but there definately is an issue. I have had numerous cols that have been stable at 5k since the refinery patch suddenly drop to 2k in the last week or so, others that have been stable at 8-9k have dropped to 4k. None of the settings on these cols have been changed in the last 2 months or whatever since the refinery patch, now they need completely readjusted.

[duece]

I'm corped with Luna on the server she was having these problems and every planet in question I found with poor settings that caused the instability. So I'm fairly convinced that it's a display issue that affects some people, if I had to put my finger on it I would put it on the patch that cut overall harvesting, because I remember the display being inconsistent between what it told me and corpmates in the immediate aftermath of the update. I had to reinstall for a different reason shortly after that so that could be what fixed it for me.