Proposals for the next Permaverse

[General_Neox]

Spoke with Toonces briefly today, he's thinking of banging the next perma soon.

He's debating on having an all-ports-buying concept similiar to that of the first settlers.

What do yall think? If he were to have this would you want the raid concept aswell?

Personally, I think a Fog Of War server with an expanding galaxy would be interesting. Having a few systems pop up in the fog every couple weeks.

[JuliusCaesar]

Raiding is gay, none of that crap.

FOG+expanding galaxy would be cool, just have the galaxy start off not-too-big, like TOS.

Please please please please no port spam. Sure having ports everywhere gets the place built faster, but then invading and fighting get shafted in the long run.

Old layouts and no mods are a must, none of this; mods + old layouts=overkill, no mods + new layouts=need 20 people to invade/war.

Errrrrrybody loves blackholes. Maybe have some spawn as the galaxy gets bigger? Perhaps get creative with the blackhole/systems layout too. Just a pipe dream, but perhaps have UN space and sol start out near the center of a spiral galaxy, as time goes on add systems outwards from the center. After a set point, say 30 hops out from sol to the farthest system out, have a network of 6 blackhole pairs form linking from the center of the galaxy outwards to the edges of the the galaxy. Think of spokes on a wagon wheel.

Uhhhh what else......10k pop domes maybe? Easy difficulty is prefered, I'd rather build and invade colonies more satisfying than 4 shots...

And finally, no asteroids

[Mel'Kaven]

My suggestion:

FIRST: Delete the dead servers.

Name: Horologium Supercluster
Galactic Map:


This galaxy holds many arms and large galactic fronts, this allows for invaders to invade and builders to build (since corp sizes will be fairly large)

Size: Very large, about as many stars as HC.
Port Frequency: 65%
Planet Frequency: 1-9
NPCs: 1200
Starting Money: 5mil.
Fuel Regen: Fast, .9/minute
Star Bases: 4 PB, 4 UN
Only Layouts: OLD LAYOUTS ONLY
Mods: No mods
Difficulty: Extreme (so not everything is a 10k pop)
FoW: Yes, but please show warp connections.. The current method of FoW is pathetic. It needs to show warplanes that branch off of the star system, even if you dont go to them. Or at the very least, show warps on the galaxy map when you select a system.
Corp Sizes: 7
Starting UN cols: VERY MANY.


Idk thats my suggestion tho. OR I'd like a really small combat oriented CW style map, but thats not happening. Meh.

[NightstarRage]

Old layouts and no mods are a must

[P-i-m-p]

Raiding is gay, none of that crap.

FOG+expanding galaxy would be cool, just have the galaxy start off not-too-big, like TOS.

Please please please please no port spam. Sure having ports everywhere gets the place built faster, but then invading and fighting get shafted in the long run.

Old layouts and no mods are a must, none of this; mods + old layouts=overkill, no mods + new layouts=need 20 people to invade/war.

Errrrrrybody loves blackholes. Maybe have some spawn as the galaxy gets bigger? Perhaps get creative with the blackhole/systems layout too. Just a pipe dream, but perhaps have UN space and sol start out near the center of a spiral galaxy, as time goes on add systems outwards from the center. After a set point, say 30 hops out from sol to the farthest system out, have a network of 6 blackhole pairs form linking from the center of the galaxy outwards to the edges of the the galaxy. Think of spokes on a wagon wheel.

Uhhhh what else......10k pop domes maybe? Easy difficulty is prefered, I'd rather build and invade colonies more satisfying than 4 shots...

And finally, no asteroids

Tor is a no mod new layout server, almost everything is possible solo.

My suggestion:

FIRST: Delete the dead servers.

Name: Horologium Supercluster
Galactic Map:


This galaxy holds many arms and large galactic fronts, this allows for invaders to invade and builders to build (since corp sizes will be fairly large)

Size: Very large, about as many stars as HC.
Port Frequency: 65%
Planet Frequency: 1-9
NPCs: 1200
Starting Money: 5mil.
Fuel Regen: Fast, .9/minute
Star Bases: 4 PB, 4 UN
Only Layouts: OLD LAYOUTS ONLY
Mods: No mods
Difficulty: Extreme (so not everything is a 10k pop)
FoW: Yes, but please show warp connections.. The current method of FoW is pathetic. It needs to show warplanes that branch off of the star system, even if you dont go to them. Or at the very least, show warps on the galaxy map when you select a system.
Corp Sizes: 7
Starting UN cols: VERY MANY.


Idk thats my suggestion tho. OR I'd like a really small combat oriented CW style map, but thats not happening. Meh.

Toonces should Definitely look into this

[General_Neox]

I've found the idea of a very large map with large corps very appealing for the longest time. It boggles my mind that he hasn't banged something like that yet. It seems like the simplest concept.

[Mel'Kaven]

I've found the idea of a very large map with large corps very appealing for the longest time. It boggles my mind that he hasn't banged something like that yet. It seems like the simplest concept.

Ikr?

[BardockSGE]

You guys honestly like the FoW crap?

[Mel'Kaven]

You guys honestly like the FoW crap?

I truly hate it, but FW is active so Im guessing a lot of other people do. I think if it is to be implemented, it should AT VERY LEAST show other warp lanes as they stick off systems when you go into them. Otherwise its stupider than stupid.

[General_Neox]

Theres nothing wrong with FoW if you have an attention span.

[omlow]

FIX PRICES. by fix i mean make stationary, rather than fix what is broken. fix ship prices, fix shield prices, fix everything except resources. please.

make there a limit to the amount of empty systems. maybe 5 or 10. so that at any given point there are 10 uncolonized systems. so as colonies are built, more systems are created, and as colonies die, their systems die with them. keeps the galaxy map size relative to the amount of people playing.

[Major]

FIX PRICES. by fix i mean make stationary, rather than fix what is broken. fix ship prices, fix shield prices, fix everything except resources. please.

make there a limit to the amount of empty systems. maybe 5 or 10. so that at any given point there are 10 uncolonized systems. so as colonies are built, more systems are created, and as colonies die, their systems die with them. keeps the galaxy map size relative to the amount of people playing.

agreed.

[BardockSGE]

Theres nothing wrong with FoW if you have an attention span.

Yeah. As far as I'm concerned it's all just a scam to make you use all your warp fuel exploring a galaxy so you'll be forced to token fuel and buy more tokens. Pass.

[duece]

Instead of old layouts, why not just make the maximum solar 5 shot? Most of the new layouts can be just as fun as the old but are overpowered at high solars.

[Voltage]

Eh 5 shots might be too easy :/ but then again i could be wrong

[CrazyChef]

Stop calling them "Permas" if they will just be deleted. Also, if permas are dead and getting deleted... then stop making new ones. The issue is there is no new content/goals...

[omlow]

Instead of old layouts, why not just make the maximum solar 5 shot? Most of the new layouts can be just as fun as the old but are overpowered at high solars.

<3!

[JuliusCaesar]

Because I actually enjoy invading challenging colonies. A 5-120 shotty, or *gasp* a 5-120 shotty dd are still easy as piss.

[omlow]

JC, you miss the point. 10/120 DDs are not challenging. a 5/120 DD would be, as contradictory as it seems. in fact invading was at it's most challenging BEFORE multi shot solars, because the player standard was high. in those times in order to be an 'alright' invader you had to be able to slide just about anything, dis solars for long periods without dying, and do insane caps. now, to be an 'alright' invader, you need to be able to clean pollution on nuke cols, collect lots of tax, and have relatively little ship positioning or aiming or timing etc skills.

besides, difficulty is relative. a 20/120 is no harder than a 1/30, it just takes a whole lot more time and money. most people would probably have more 'fun' doing the 1/30 because it's faster, smoother, and there is more potential for variety, rather than just land, nuke, rs, land nuke rs. and 'fun' is what leads to activity and token sales.

[duece]

I pretty much agree with what omlow said, if individual cols are easier then in one invading session you would invade 2 (or 4 or whatever) colonies for every 1 you normally would have, so then you have to invade twice as much, and in the end it's about the same of a challenge. The reason I'd prefer it is instead of drop nuking everything you can incorporate more sliding with fewer invaders and it makes the whole process more fluid. It's not that 10 shots are so difficult, they're less fun. All of that is just my opinion though.

EDIT: But I'll say the old layouts are fine as 10 shots, the 5 shot idea is in place of the old layouts only idea and I wouldn't like it if both were done simultaneously.

[JuliusCaesar]

You're talking about empire upkeep and variety caps. I'm talking about taking dd dragontails with a group of 5 people working in tandem in different roles towards a common goal. I'd rather have some of that than everything be easy as piss.

Difficulty is relative among different people, but it isn't for individuals when weighing colonies. Sure you can do more "fancy" (slidecaps and whatnot) things on a 5 shot, but to be quite honest I have capped my share of 5 shots. I've slide capped all different sorts of colonies, I have dissed 5 shots and 10-120 dds for extended periods of time (hey, time is relative if colony difficulty is right? ), capped things no one sane would try to cap on all spectrums of solar strength. All out of boredom. I can nuke every laser on that colony, but that is boring and I'm lazy. let's have some lulz. I always push the limits and always try new things as allowed for. If all colonies are capped off at 5 shot max all you are doing is ruining variety. There are plenty of 5 shots everywhere without a cap on solar count anyway. All a cap would do is take away the harder ones to invade.

It gets just as boring to invade 5 shots as it does nuke eaters on 10 shots. It is all relative and repetative if you are stuck in that sort of "land, nuke, rs, land nuke rs" mentality. The most fun I have had solo invading colonies came from 10-120s on concentrated/narrow strength.

PS: New layouts aren't very fun if domed "properly". They are outside the above points. Hence, no new layouts please

[omlow]

JC, the type of invading you describe is fun yes, but the way prices are it is not sustainable. an 'alright' group of invaders can maybe cap 2 cols like that then all ports within 5 hops are raped and most of their funds are gone.

5 shot cap would cater for the "I can nuke every laser on that colony, but that is boring and I'm lazy. let's have some lulz." attitude better. i guarantee you can die just as much on a 5 shot than you can on a 20/120, but you dont have to nuke as much and you can be more lazy and you can get more lulz out of it.

right now, in relation to other aspects of the game, it's more efficient to nuke everything and invade that way (compared to earlier versions of the game where it was more efficient to slide stuff, precision torp stuff and do precise caps). sure it's more fun to invade with skills, but that should've never been allowed to happen, the game now "punishes" fun invasions.

perhaps we should make 1 shot max, and instead of controlling the number of shots, have it so that you can make that solar up to 10X more damaging than a standard solar? you said you had the most fun on concentrated solars, and it doesnt get much more concentrated than 1 really powerfull solar...

[Mel'Kaven]

perhaps we should make 1 shot max, and instead of controlling the number of shots, have it so that you can make that solar up to 10X more damaging than a standard solar? you said you had the most fun on concentrated solars, and it doesnt get much more concentrated than 1 really powerfull solar...

agree.

[JesusRocks765]

yea, sounds like a good idea as long as toonces trys it in his new perma and not forcing another dramatic solar change on everyone.

[Saber-Fury]

If you're talking to toonces about new servers, you should be saying one word: NO

As CC said - even deleting servers in order to bang new ones is pointless - it doesn't bring any players to the game and causes people to quit, leaving sge stuck in its rut.

Servers should be deleted, and no new ones made until there are enough people who play that one is warranted.

Mel that's a cool idea for a server. But if he bangs that big boy, he needs to delete every single other one. immediately.

Normal sized permas go dead and spread the game thin fast enough.

[Saber-Fury]

Also, FoW is retarded as hell unless it's an extended rebang - FoW on one of those would be awesome. Otherwise it's just a nuisance.

We all want a no mod, old layout server. But even aside from lack of playerbase/effect new servers have on playerbase as already detailed, there are still problems, ex;

The Combination of old layouts, port negs, and col settings will make this an invader's server - who will build it? I can think of many people who'd love to invade here, but few who would build. Which leads me into my next point:

Tor is a no mod new layout server, almost everything is possible solo.

So this new server will have no mods, old layouts, and harder col difficulty (weaker cols) than TOR, where it is apparently possible to solo everything? Sounds like invading will be easy as hug.

Another major point i think that's been unrecognized for far too long - a lot of the fun of old permas was from the sliding, the capping-the-easy-col-and-getting-nukes sort of thing. However, most of those cols were domed a long time ago. We all loved other silly dome placements as well. For example, the d-tail part of that layout was rarely used. Rings used to be the hardest type of col because of the danger of lasers and solar pounding the invader immediately - the multi shot solar changed all that. a good deal of the existing cols were mis-domed for multi shot invading, and invaders had a great time taking them. These cols were passed down from invader to invader. Builders, not fully adapated to multi shots, still made the same placements - but most servers were fully built, and just kept passing down colonies. However, No one will be building in that sort of style anymore.

This is another reason I think there really is no history of sge from the years after multi shots - because cols got passed around so fast, corporations never really lasted long and never stayed together like those of old. Players came and went like never before. The last great war of lore I saw was Gunboat vs. Muppets when I was a newbie on 11th.

Point is - the overlap of old-era dome placements/defensive ideas with tactics which worked well against them in years past and which contributed to the fun of invading will not be reborn with an old layout server, because no one will ever build/dome in that way again. It will be server of the calculated placements. Unless of course there's a sudden influx of newbies whose poor building can be taken advantage of, but wouldn't that just be wrong?

[duece]

You're talking about empire upkeep and variety caps. I'm talking about taking dd dragontails with a group of 5 people working in tandem in different roles towards a common goal. I'd rather have some of that than everything be easy as piss.

Difficulty is relative among different people, but it isn't for individuals when weighing colonies. Sure you can do more "fancy" (slidecaps and whatnot) things on a 5 shot, but to be quite honest I have capped my share of 5 shots. I've slide capped all different sorts of colonies, I have dissed 5 shots and 10-120 dds for extended periods of time (hey, time is relative if colony difficulty is right? ), capped things no one sane would try to cap on all spectrums of solar strength. All out of boredom. I can nuke every laser on that colony, but that is boring and I'm lazy. let's have some lulz. I always push the limits and always try new things as allowed for. If all colonies are capped off at 5 shot max all you are doing is ruining variety. There are plenty of 5 shots everywhere without a cap on solar count anyway. All a cap would do is take away the harder ones to invade.

It gets just as boring to invade 5 shots as it does nuke eaters on 10 shots. It is all relative and repetative if you are stuck in that sort of "land, nuke, rs, land nuke rs" mentality. The most fun I have had solo invading colonies came from 10-120s on concentrated/narrow strength.

PS: New layouts aren't very fun if domed "properly". They are outside the above points. Hence, no new layouts please

Dragontails aren't hard though, me and Thorin invaded a shitload of them on classics, two people can do a rocky dragontail in 30 minutes. If you're using 5 people I'd say that's not a challenge at all. And then other than dragontails there are spirals, and that's it. Every other old layout is just defended as a nuke eater with cmines to prevent domesliding. Any type of colony will eventually become a drag, but the old layouts are already a drag. The problem (that we agree on) is that the new layouts are OP, and I don't like increasing the ore cost of solars because that forces people to reduce taxes and weapons productions.

EDIT: If I were to sum up my philosophy, I want building and invading to be a little bit easier so that starport is more eventful. If in a given amount of time, things are changed so that people finish building or invading more planets in that time, then I think it makes the game more fluid. As long as you're competing against people, making any part of the game easier won't actually make anything easier because it's also easier for your competition.

[duece]

Actually scratch everything I said, a new perma would be stupid considering how fw and orion spur are already busts. New permas don't even draw people in anymore, the only reason they used to is because it used to take 4 months for a galaxy to fill up with colonized planets and for one corp to become clearly dominant of that server. The current permas are wide open and people still aren't going to them.

[JuliusCaesar]

I agree a new perma is not warranted at this point, just speaking theoretically.

[omlow]

also have less systems and more planets.