Complaints about Ship Mods

[inevamis]

The only thing in Starport that baffled me more than some of Toonces patches over time were the conflicting opinions of players in this forum. No one can seem to agree on anything. I guess everyone likes their games different. Four people say mods made combat worse than Barefoot says it made it better... Toonces should just look at the numbers. Did mods increase the number of players? People that still play Starport and are on this forum obviously liked mods more than people that quit.

You'll never be able to satisfy everyone so try for the majority I guess.

You just have to make sure you're seeing the forest and not the trees. For example, Breakdown talks about not wanting to lose cargo mods, but that's not really the problem.. the problem is that building is tedious.

[thrad yeknom]

I voted keep mods, but make some adjustments.

Maybe something like:

*Reduce / remove the nerf to flight mods from patch 555, then make it so you can only have a max of 3 or 4 flight mods per ship (or 2 / 3 flights mods if you have afterburners), and then adjust nuke speeds in line with this. So that ships aren't too slow or too fast, and you can dodge nukes, but not easily outrun them (as people were doing with 7 flight mods and afterburners before patch 555)

*Reduce / remove the nerf to thrusting from patch 555

*Reduce / remove the nerf to nuetron plates from patch 555 and make it so you can only have a max of 2 or 3 plates per ship. Or maybe leave it how it is currently?

*Nerf some of the weapons mods, possibly even to the point were they're almost not worth having (but people could still buy them if they really wanted to). The recent changes to flower power are good, but other mods such as cloak could even drain energy faster perhaps.

*And if possible have a pre-mods server as other people have already suggested.

[nine-breaker]

Have 2 servers with mods, and 2 servers without. Then the same with rebangs, half with, and half without.

As for new players having to adapt: At first I was going to reply with "What new players?" but then pushing the smart donkey side of me away, I will simply say, "if we can adapt to mods, then why cant new players adapt to them without mods."

-Of-course none of the above sentence would be relevant with the creation of different server types.

-As for the community being split. The community has always been split 3 ways. Rebangers, pvp'ers, and pax'ers.

Now on to why only 4 perma servers.
- 1 perma pvp pre-mod
- 1 perma pvp post-mod
- 1 pax pre-mod (doubt this would get much activity)
- 1 pax post-mod

And toonces, you have no idea how excited I am that you are finally considering to remove the mods.

[GRAWRG.]

i voted get rid of the mods altogether, but i at least want one server without mods. nines post pretty much sums up how i feel.

[Pwnster]

Have 2 servers with mods, and 2 servers without. Then the same with rebangs, half with, and half without.

As for new players having to adapt: At first I was going to reply with "What new players?" but then pushing the smart donkey side of me away, I will simply say, "if we can adapt to mods, then why cant new players adapt to them without mods."

-Of-course none of the above sentence would be relevant with the creation of different server types.

-As for the community being split. The community has always been split 3 ways. Rebangers, pvp'ers, and pax'ers.

Now on to why only 4 perma servers.
- 1 perma pvp pre-mod
- 1 perma pvp post-mod
- 1 pax pre-mod (doubt this would get much activity)
- 1 pax post-mod

And toonces, you have no idea how excited I am that you are finally considering to remove the mods.

YOU GO NINE!

ill take a 12 oz steak

[Pwnster]

if your gonna change the mods at least slow down nukes

[Golab36]

I personally have no problem with the mods... at least the skill booster mods. Only thing I don't really care for is all the weps ships can carry now. I say keep the mods such as neutron plating and flight mods and the mods like that... but get rid of everything else. Then the game will be skill based again as some people have said. The mod patch from what I have seen of it wasn't a bad idea, there was just apparently not enough community input.

You can keep some of the mods, but others are just plain horrible. Like I said, the skill mods we can keep... the weapon mods can go.

Golabulus(Rangers all the way!!)

[Bugs Bunny]

i like the mods...it allows for a great degree of fexibility
and that serves to create a bit of unknown

if there are no mods everyone would know what each ship is capable of n that would make it boring n predictable
with all fights/invasions tilted towards better ships

with the mods...weaker ships and be strong in one area ...hence u cannot truly guess what area the ships are strong in
this unknown makes it more fun

please keep the mods

[nine-breaker]

i like the mods...it allows for a great degree of fexibility
and that serves to create a bit of unknown

if there are no mods everyone would know what each ship is capable of n that would make it boring n predictable
with all fights/invasions tilted towards better ships

with the mods...weaker ships and be strong in one area ...hence u cannot truly guess what area the ships are strong in
this unknown makes it more fun

please keep the mods

Not only were ships monumentally stronger pre-mod, the pilots were more skilled too. The pilot acts as your "randomness" that you seek. Get rid of the mods.

[Bugs Bunny]

hide player arties too ...to create more unknowns

[nine-breaker]

hide player arties too ...to create more unknowns

You dont get to talk anymore

[Bugs Bunny]

i like the mods...it allows for a great degree of fexibility
and that serves to create a bit of unknown

if there are no mods everyone would know what each ship is capable of n that would make it boring n predictable
with all fights/invasions tilted towards better ships

with the mods...weaker ships and be strong in one area ...hence u cannot truly guess what area the ships are strong in
this unknown makes it more fun

please keep the mods

Not only were ships monumentally stronger pre-mod, the pilots were more skilled too. The pilot acts as your "randomness" that you seek. Get rid of the mods.

i dont have a perspective of pre-mod ships, but even now player skills matter
i dont see how removing randomness can make things better
Mods can be changed...but removing is too extreme

[WeGotDeathStar]

I'm interested to find out any statistics proving more players joining the game post mod vs pre mod.

From what I have witnessed after playing since 2007 is a large decrease in the player base that was in fact caused by the mods. People were fed up with many aspects of the game and the mods were the icing on the cake so to say.

All the skills learned from playing and from other veteran players got thrown out once the mod patch came into play. The days of flying into a system of 5 players wanting to kill you and getting out alive used to be fun and was directly controlled through pilot skills. It was a good laugh to have 20 nukes launched and being able to outrun them then warping out at 10% sheilds

The mods also increased an invaders skill set by having neutron plating making any colony invaded with ease. We took 200 cols in a night on the old 11th, thats pretty unbalanced if you ask me. While it was fun it suddenly came to an end once the shield prices got nerfed so the gameplay became stagnent once again. It really wasnt fair to corps to lose this much anyways.

PvP is a very large part of this games fun factor and that was removed with the mods as well, any nub could get 6 flights and outrun nukes like a champ. There is no reason why it should take 4 players to kill one mediocre player, Thus adding frustration to players already losing interest in the game.

Before mods it meant something to cap a colony with 500 nukes. Now all you have to do is get a couple of guys and surface missles and invade like crazy. Domeslides were a skill only a few had. Losing colonies so easy can't be fun for builders trying to grow new permas so everyone can have fun.

For the players that complained about invading being to easy pre mod here is an example: If you let a 2 shot greenhouse have 500 nukes in a weapons factory you deserved to lose the system. Thats the players fault for not planning ahead not the developers.

In P3's prime we had ports mined and lasered systems 20 hops around making it very difficult to invade effectivly. There was a very good chance you would end up dead if you werent careful. Players had plenty of fun and the game was doing very well at this time. Now all you need to do to defeat lasered systems is get a avenger and surface missles. Again not very fun.


While I have enjoyed P3, P4, The 11'th and many more, deleting the permas in a neccesary part of the game to survive, players need to be on active permas for token sales to thrive. Keep one or two permas alive for the players that can't play well with others open so they don't quit the game. Look at all the buzz we had when Classics banged, 100 people logged in for the first month.

Give the players what they want and make us a server with no mods, have it set for between the refinery patch and pre mod. Many players agreed thats when the game was its best.


If you get some of the old guys to come back we will once again have wars to make the game fun again.

War = $$ Token Sales $$

[Saber-Fury]

if there are no mods everyone would know what each ship is capable of n that would make it boring n predictable
with all fights/invasions tilted towards better ships

Not better ships. the 3 main ships (seth, isc, and ceo) were at least fairly evenly matched, and even if one group had igses it didn't mean they would win... I think the correct term is 'skill,' something which has been made obsolete by the mods.

Also, if you think that before the mods patch invading and fighting were geared towards simply getting the best ship, you need to get a clue.

[Saber-Fury]

i like the mods...it allows for a great degree of fexibility
and that serves to create a bit of unknown

if there are no mods everyone would know what each ship is capable of n that would make it boring n predictable
with all fights/invasions tilted towards better ships

with the mods...weaker ships and be strong in one area ...hence u cannot truly guess what area the ships are strong in
this unknown makes it more fun

please keep the mods

Not only were ships monumentally stronger pre-mod, the pilots were more skilled too. The pilot acts as your "randomness" that you seek. Get rid of the mods.

i dont have a perspective of pre-mod ships, but even now player skills matter
i dont see how removing randomness can make things better
Mods can be changed...but removing is too extreme

There is no 'randomness' Once you find out the best mod combo to counter a certain other one, it's not hard to remember it. an intelligent player could just make a chart of which modsets counter each other. Fighting other people shouldn't just be about going to a starbase and buying something that makes you better... even the old way, with different ships and weapons there was still diversity, but also a clear learning curve and development of skill that all had to take if they wished to be a good fighter. Mods have destroyed this.

[BardockSGE]

Also, we could deal without surface missiles 'ey? Or have you vets have forgotten how to photon snipe out a colony? Perhaps surface missiles and other mods have dulled your skills enough to where you're not reliant on them. If that's true, fine.

[WeGotDeathStar]

Torping a colony with one of your buds and capping it with 500 nukes in the wep factory was an accomplishment. Now just put a matchbook between your surface missle key and walk away...........

[BardockSGE]

Torping a colony with one of your buds and capping it with 500 nukes in the wep factory was an accomplishment. Now just put a matchbook between your surface missle key and walk away...........

Thank you.

[Bugs Bunny]

Torping a colony with one of your buds and capping it with 500 nukes in the wep factory was an accomplishment. Now just put a matchbook between your surface missle key and walk away...........

/Agree changing SM to to be effective at a much closer range(within lazer range so u take some lazer damage) and fire only staright(not around corners like it does now) would be much better

[Camaril]

that would totally destroy sm and nobody would use it, ether delete it or yes make it closer but it can still turn corners.

if it fires only straight AND you were too close so lasers would hit you it would be way easier to just torp it.

[Bugs Bunny]

There is no 'randomness' Once you find out the best mod combo to counter a certain other one, it's not hard to remember it. an intelligent player could just make a chart of which modsets counter each other. Fighting other people shouldn't just be about going to a starbase and buying something that makes you better... even the old way, with different ships and weapons there was still diversity, but also a clear learning curve and development of skill that all had to take if they wished to be a good fighter. Mods have destroyed this.

sure u can counter a mod with another mod...but u cannot counter every mod on every ship at the same time
unless u r targeting one specific config to counter...there is plenty of randomness...so i dont get ur point

there is still a learning curve...dome slide n corner cap need skill
granted the learning curve is shorter but i see that as a benefit for new players so they can survive till they get good
having a super steep learning curve so the "old" players can plunder the new players ...will just drive them away

[Saber-Fury]

There is no 'randomness' Once you find out the best mod combo to counter a certain other one, it's not hard to remember it. an intelligent player could just make a chart of which modsets counter each other. Fighting other people shouldn't just be about going to a starbase and buying something that makes you better... even the old way, with different ships and weapons there was still diversity, but also a clear learning curve and development of skill that all had to take if they wished to be a good fighter. Mods have destroyed this.

sure u can counter a mod with another mod...but u cannot counter every mod on every ship at the same time
unless u r targeting one specific config to counter...there is plenty of randomness...so i dont get ur point

there is still a learning curve...dome slide n corner cap need skill
granted the learning curve is shorter but i see that as a benefit for new players so they can survive till they get good
having a super steep learning curve so the "old" players can plunder the new players ...will just drive them away

Yes, you cannot possibly counter every single mod, every single time you fight someone. But when they beat you, it's not because of their own merit or skill. It's because they bought something that worked well against what you had. Maybe next time you will have SM and I will have PD. That's not fun that's just a repetitive combat triangle.

and just an fyi.. the game was WAY more popular before the mods. Not saying the mods are horrible and they suck, etc. but the amount of new players staying is at an all time LOW, and the rate at which older players are quitting is huge.

And it's not so older players can 'plunder' the new players. IF the newbies don't try to learn or improve, well yes of course they'll get squashed. Even after I joined, back in the days of no mods, I watched newbies grow into good players over months and years (though some of them were my peers, i havent played as long as a lot around here have). If you want the instant gratification and satisfaction of being able to play the game for a week or two, just get the general gist, and then go around killing people and switching up your modset, well then yes the mods are right for you. Or, you could play an old-style server if (and when ?) toonces decides to convert some back, and see what the game is truly meant to be like. If you play for a while you'd probably see how much more skill-based the game is and enjoy it more than you do now.

[inevamis]

I've always agreed that something needs to be done to make the game more newbie friendly but there has to be a way that doesn't take away from the game like the mods patch did.

Personally I had a lot of fun as a newbie.. I was all wide eyed and everything was so dramatic... but I guess I wasn't a tool like some newbies are so I was able to survive and progress. I spent time on the forums and made friendships with key players. But learning the game was the most fun part and even after 2 years playing I was still progressing as a player.

Why not just make a server that is CLEARLY labelled as a newbie server and maybe even limit it to people that have under a certain amount of achievement points. Then somehow work better game tutorials into it so people can learn easier. Newbies would still obviously have the option of playing the "expert" server but they could retreat to the newbie server if they wanted.

I've always been a proponent of having a few large servers too. This way there will be much more people and action per server. Have a large expert server and have a large newbie server. Delete the rest!

I also liked the idea that was presented a while back of having a dynamic webpage that shows stats and rankings of players according to their accomplishments in game. If this was broken into and Expert category and a Newbie category (according to the expert and newbie servers), this would give more motivation for people to play to their level. After all, people have always been after glory in Starport.

[Bugs Bunny]

some good ideas here...Toonces is already experimenting with the power of each mod..certainly a step in the right direction
reducing number of servers ...is also a step in the right direction...needs to be reduced much more
in the past 2 weeks i have seen new players log in everyday...never seen that in the past few months
whatever they are doing ...its working
having a no mod server to experiment with would be good...untill i see for myself how its possible for it to be more fun...i am still gonna favor mods (that do need adjustments from what they currently are)
PD can counter SM but not GRAV or repeated doses of FP..so not really a triangle...

[BardockSGE]

some good ideas here...Toonces is already experimenting with the power of each mod..certainly a step in the right direction
reducing number of servers ...is also a step in the right direction...needs to be reduced much more
in the past 2 weeks i have seen new players log in everyday...never seen that in the past few months
whatever they are doing ...its working
having a no mod server to experiment with would be good...untill i see for myself how its possible for it to be more fun...i am still gonna favor mods (that do need adjustments from what they currently are)
PD can counter SM but not GRAV or repeated doses of FP..so not really a triangle...

Okay, pd doesn't block grav, you're right. So basically you can kite someone around who has a grav, shove photons and nukes into his face while he's trying to chase and grav you. Yeah. Great solution for countering PD! /Fail.

And as long as Toonces isn't deleting my server, its all good! ;/

And basically, to me your opinion towards modules versus no modules is biased. You basically said you have yet to experience the game without. So of course you're going to favor modules.

I've played this game for roughly 4 years. I know what era was the funnest. Unbiased.

As for game activity. Dude, you have no idea. I remember the early days of this game, usually there averaged 10 people active on a server a day, if it wasn't 10, it was easily 12-15. That was amazing compared to what it is now. What is the average nowadays? I doubt it averages out to more than 3 people a server. Highly doubt it. When I log in I see like 1 server with 15 people 2 with 3 and the rest is like 0. I'd say that's fairly accurate for activity nowadays, right? Pretty damned close.

[Bugs Bunny]

you are right on many points...but as i said i have played only with mods...and i like them for good or bad
to have it snatched all away at one go on all servers...is too extreme for me...better to make a no mod server to experiment on

i was merely suggesting that there are many ways to counter...its not limited to one or 2 choices
if you have played for 4 years and dont know how to counter PD then /Fail for you
if the person has PD and photons...u can counter it with grav trac n flower

also u cannot blame less people purely on changes to the game
in 4-5 years lots of other things have changed beyond the realm of this game
like XBox PS3 etc etc....so reverting back to stone age will not guarantee a super revival

[BardockSGE]

you are right on many points...but as i said i have played only with mods...and i like them for good or bad
to have it snatched all away at one go on all servers...is too extreme for me...better to make a no mod server to experiment on

You know how I feel now mate.

[duece]

A lot of people here are really underestimating how much of a hassle it would be to split starport's development into two strands in order to maintain a truly classic server. It would quickly end up being much more trouble than it's worth. If it was made so that some servers had no mods, how long would that last until some new patch people didn't like came in and the classic server wouldn't be classic anymore?

I'm in favor of trying to find a single ruleset that makes the most people possible happy. There should be a way to have customization without reducing combat into grinding.

I don't like how ship's special weapons were taken as the weapons mods. I'd prefer it if a new batch was created just for that purpose, but I guess that's easier said than done. I don't think mods take anything away from the skill of combat anymore than artifacts did in the old system, part of the skill is getting a feel for your opponents setup and adjusting on the fly. But if you're set up badly for someone's modset there's nothing you can do but fly back to a base. If there was a way to adjust mods on the fly then it would keep fighting more dynamic, but that would be hard as hell to balance.

The main redeeming factor is for large corp battles there more reward for team work and coordination, but that only goes so far, and only when you're in a large enough team. Most of the damage is done to one on one combat.

Also do anything at all possible to make gameplay more fast paced. Flight mods were awesome before being nerfed just because you could be whizzing around at will. Even if all you do is boost base ship stats across the board, I'd love that.

[zanth]

people were happy before mods, mods are decent ditch the damn weapons it MAKES THE GAME TO EASY i dont care what you do to vulture missiles they are still infinate and making them un infinate would tick people off the wrong way. Get rid of the third party wweapons or hell keep it but take out special weapons

[Kasonia-]

The mods was a good idea that failed, i guarantee u in a businiess perspective that more people will play and spend money without the mods guaranteed i know about 12 ppl on vent right now saying they'll play again
Kasonia
Aka GOd