Talk:Tradewars

From Starport: Galactic Empires

This is rediculous dude, Stop spamming the tradewars game around. Yes it may have its similarities but this is an entirely different game.

This is over the line man don't be advertising for other games on here. Im deleting this page.

Apollyon 11:44, 26 February 2008 (PST)

This is no advertisement, and I am insulted that you suggest so. It is /not/ an 'entirely different' game. Did you even read the page? SGE shares more things with TW2002 than it has different!

I enjoy SGE, and I enjoyed TW2002, and I think it is entirely important for new users from a TW2002 background to be able to see the similarities and differences as a point of reference. It would have helped me. I am reverting.

Ibanix 13:06, 26 February 2008 (PST)

This would be like me going to Tradewars and saying, HEy have you guys seen this new cool game its called SGE, its a lot like this so you should all come play it instead.

As I said before I understand where a mention that these two games are similar would be fine but a whole page is over the line, this is STARPORT GALACTIC EMPIRES it is insulting and rude to make pages in the wiki for competing games.

Im deleting again. Unless you can get one of the admins to say this is ok I am going to delete again if you repost. Apollyon 13:56, 27 February 2008 (PST)

How could it possibly be a competing game? TW2002 is an ASCII-only, telnet-based game from the 1980s. Some people are still playing it, but it's not like the two games are in areas where people are going to overlap.

Why are you - and other SGE players - so hostile to the fact that SGE is Tradewars with a new face? It *is* the same game, just with updated graphics, a few new additions, and missing a few parts. Four of the ship names are EXACTLY THE SAME. Most of the concepts are EXACTLY the same. Not acknowledging SGE is based on TW2002 is like saying that Day of Defeat is not based on World War II!

I am not advertising that people should play TW2002; none of the page say so. The most I did was link to the wikipedia article on TW2002, which is hardly advertising. And to be balanced and fair, I included both the things similar or the things different. I've made every effort to be fair here.

I am eventually going to revert, unless you can indeed get someone to lock the 'Tradewars' page.

Ibanix 14:04, 27 February 2008 (PST)

How about a compromise - The Tradewars historical roots are interesting and intertwined with SGE, so it is valid content. On the other hand it is a minor historical detail that certainly doesn't belong on the main page. Can't we have a basic page but have it be linked from a new SGE History page or something, and not the high profile main page? (We need to start organizing SGE history anyway, I've seen a bit more historical content popping up like the Great Space Race)

The page it otherwise not too bad - keep it an impartial list of similarities/differences and let the Wikipedia article do the rest. My only advice is to state that it is "an ASCII-only, telnet-based game from the 1980s" in the intro paragraph; that makes it clear it isn't a competitor and puts it into context.

--squeemish 06:35, 28 February 2008 (PST)

That seems like a reasonable compromise. Adding the "an ASCII-only, telnet-based game from the 1980s" is no problem. How/where would you suggest we link to the page? Where would a 'SGE History' page link from? Main Page or somewhere else?

Side note: A person on the forums sent me a private message after reading some comments I made there about TW2002, and saying he was also a 'refugee' from TW2002. So we definitely have TW2002 cross-over players who will find this info useful.

Ibanix 13:10, 28 February 2008 (PST)

What I am opposed to right now is that this is SGE and in their wiki there is an entire page dedicated to a different game. As for the sge history page. I really don't think tradewars would count as sge history. As I said before I think something like this would belong on a similar games thread.
The point is you can find similarites in many games. Looking over the similarites you have listed, most of them seem pretty basic and obvious things to include in the game. Looking at it the only thing that seems an obvious similarity to me are the ship names and those are the lowest most newbiest ships in the game. And a lot of the differences you have mentioned are essential parts of SGE. Yes there may be similarities but the way you've been talking you would think it was just a graphics upgrade of tradewars which is obviously not true.
I wouldn't go onto the total war wiki (if there is one) and make a page devoted to another game like say civilizations (even though I don't personally see many similarities Total war campaign game is often compared to Civilizations.)

Apollyon 17:47, 28 February 2008 (PST)

I think perhaps you don't understand. There is no other game that is like SGE, except Tradewars. Not even close. SGE is a graphics update of Tradewars. If you've played TW2002 it is obvious; that's why I ended up playing SGE - "oh, it's Tradewars with some new graphics".

Ibanix 17:58, 28 February 2008 (PST)

A Half Life 2 wiki would have a page on Half Life, which would probably in turn have a page on Quake, which in turn would have a page on Doom. Everyone is a refugee of some other games, and all games build upon the good parts of what has come before. I think a Total War wiki (one of my favorite games of all time by the way) should have a page to let Civ users know what to expect (what is the same and what is different). It speaks to the audience, answering valid questions, so why not?

I'm not sure where to link to it, the "history" page was just an idea I threw out there. I was thinking SGE History would link from the main page, and it would contain new posts like history of permaverse, any pages for specific vets, info on patches and community reaction, what some old bugs did, double/triple domes, in-game events of the past, etc.

I think it should be reverted. However, as another lets-get-on-with-it solution attempt: When the Wiki thread was first posted in the forums Lovecraft did say that it is their wiki site and if there is content they don't like then it will be taken down, but otherwise pretty much anything is valid. If you want to make this a test case we can ask Lovecraft's opinion.

--squeemish 21:07, 28 February 2008 (PST)

I think a comparison of the games is fine as they are similar in a way just make sure it talks about how tradewars was a past game and starport isn't associated with it at all or whatever. If nothing else this page could show up on search engines for tradewars terms and bring in new users. I saw a link to here from the main page though which isn't needed.

--Lovecraft 21:21, 28 February 2008 (PST)

But again, where do we link it from? It has to link from somewhere - search engines won't find it without a reference. Can I suggest we put on the main page, this following:

"For new users, here are some Similar games to help you understand Starport: Galactic Empires."

The Similar games page then can include sections for Tradewars... and Eve Online? That's the only other vaguely similar thing I know about. Maybe the old and very obscure BBS game Ultimate Universe; which was different in many ways. I would also suggest 'Similar Games' be one large page, not links to multiple pages per game, as the number of actual games will be low.

--Ibanix 01:33, 29 February 2008 (PST)

Seeing no more discussion on this topic, I am going to a) revert the Tradewars page to the previous version (with differences/similarities) and b) put the above text onto the main page, and c) Make 'Similar Games' with a page with: Tradewars, Ultimate Universe, and Eve Online.

--Ibanix 19:55, 10 March 2008 (PDT)