Abortion & Christianity (it isn't what you think)

[JesusRocks765]

And for the billions of others who don't share your beliefs and, if your religion was true, would be sent to hell, that answer isn't good enough.

Of course it;s not good enough for you - who wants to knowingly go to Hell? Apparently you do.

[MadAce]

Good point, I forgot the soviets. In any case their action was based on irrationality, you cannot force someone to give up their beliefs, torture or death or genocide won't change a thing other than kill a lot of people.

What makes atheism different, however, is it isn't a thing. In an ideal world there wouldnt even be such a term as atheism. That implies the lack of something, when in fact there isn't a lacking, as there isn't anything to be lacking. I can say I have 38 deities based on the cthulhu mythos (proving that would be off topic), but I do not describe myself as being "without Chtulhu".

Of course you can force someone to give up their beliefs. Plenty of ways ranging from gentle persuasion up to torture.
Claiming that violence is inherently irrational makes you seem very naive.


I'm sorry, but it's clear that you're not willing to listen. Proof for atheism being "a thing" has already been presented. In a world where you have atheist celebrities, atheist books, atheist clubs, atheist podcasts, atheist YouTube channels, atheist charities, atheist organizations, atheist websites, atheist movies, atheist billboards, atheist advertising campaigns and atheist bumper stickers it is quite hard to claim it is not a (pseudo-) ideology that can be corrupted.


You're just a spoiled child with a pet cause that you defend while not knowing... well, anything, really. You do not understand enough about history. You do not understand enough about psychology. You do not know anything about religion.

Your position has become indefensible.

Oh, and you're saying that atheism is the default human position. You made the claim. Prove it. Good luck with that.

[JuliusCaesar]

If you bring up a child without ever teaching him anything religious in nature he won't pop some abrahamic religion out of his donkey, nor would he believe anything beyond what he could reasonably determine.

And no I still can't see how being tortured or gassed would make you change your beliefs in itself. You might say you have to escape pain, but it is up to you to discard your beliefs after the fact. You have just endured massive, unholy suffering alone without a cause. Do you still believe everything is as god wants it? that is your call.

and madace you have repeatedly used the same unproven points anyway. Your positions are defensible only because you repeat them and ignore me 30 times

Edit: Just because there are a few billboards, youtube channels, books written, apparal sold, and some celebrities who don't believe in god doesn't mean there is a culture. I'm sure chairs and carrots have many of these same things present in society. Are they a culture? And you still cannot have a culture surrounding a non-entity. By definition a culture is something in which many people have similar beliefs or tendancies or opinions based around and shared through organized, or disorganized discource. The only universal thing we share is that we don't have a belief in god, that is it. You cannot base a definition on a negative. That is like saying we all belong to the culture of zeus-deniers. We have no similar traditions, history, art, language, or anything of the sort. There is a difference between culture and appreciation or fanboy-ism.

[JesusRocks765]

http://atheology.com/category/atheist-culture/

I do believe athiests do, infact have their own culture. They act superior, pretend to be enlightened, say anything they can to sound smart, and desperately try to prove Religion wrong - something that will never happen.

You JC, are a prime example of an athiest in that you despise religion, promote your personal image (didnt work for long - everyone hates you) and desperately try to argue your incorrect point with LOADS of logical fallicies and jibberish. Stop trying to spam us with your closed-minded lack of Faith and go join "atheology.com"
You'll find many similarly closed-minded, arrogant pricks over there - Go be with your own kind!

[LordSturm]

http://atheology.com/category/atheist-culture/

I do believe athiests do, infact have their own culture. They act superior, pretend to be enlightened, say anything they can to sound smart, and desperately try to prove Religion wrong - something that will never happen.

You JC, are a prime example of an athiest in that you despise religion, promote your personal image (didnt work for long - everyone hates you) and desperately try to argue your incorrect point with LOADS of logical fallicies and jibberish. Stop trying to spam us with your closed-minded lack of Faith and go join "atheology.com"
You'll find many similarly closed-minded, arrogant pricks over there - Go be with your own kind!

you, unfortunately have a very blighted view of what an "athiest" is

you dont like it when others generalize you based on what the lunatic fringe of your denomination of religion does, its only common courtesy to avoid doing it to others.

there is no inherent rule in the belief of athiesm that requires one to go on a crusade against religious folk or to despise anyting remotely "religious". for as many websites filled with intensely angry people attacking religous people as im sure atheology is, its just as easy to find a religious website that condemns everyone else but themselves, spreads just as angry of messages telling you to go out and punish non believers.

[JuliusCaesar]

Sturm beat me to it.

[JesusRocks765]

Fair Enough, not all athiests are as hateful and pathetic as JC - but let me Reenforce that JC should join his hateful and intolerant brethren at atheology.com.

[JuliusCaesar]

1) I hate you, not everyone.
2) How am I intolerant again? Coming from you thats pretty funny mr gay hater and everyone-else-is-wrong-but-me-you-are-all-eternally-damned.

[JesusRocks765]

Your arrogance and hatred towards Deeply Religious people displays your intolerance towards us - especially making fun of us for our beliefs - you can go burn for that.

I never denied that I am intolerant, I am just saying that you are in a worse way.

[JuliusCaesar]

Your arrogance and hatred towards Deeply Religious people displays your intolerance towards us - especially making fun of us for our beliefs - you can go burn for that.

Listen closely, I don't hate deeply religious people. I hate you.

Next, you cannot be "arrogant to someone". That's like saying I'm purple against you.

Intolerance broadly means disrespect or blind disregard to contrary beliefs, so, while impercise it can be said I am intolerant specifically to your breed of fundamental catholicism. It is of note that I am not intolerant to all beliefs. If you want to believe in a sky spirit and worship him privately, go right ahead just don't impose his rules against eating bacon on me.

However, I see no reason to respect a belief which disregards science, reason, and the proven, for fantasy when I or my peers are spoken out against in the name of that fantasy.

[MadAce]

If you bring up a child without ever teaching him anything religious in nature he won't pop some abrahamic religion out of his donkey, nor would he believe anything beyond what he could reasonably determine.

And no I still can't see how being tortured or gassed would make you change your beliefs in itself. You might say you have to escape pain, but it is up to you to discard your beliefs after the fact. You have just endured massive, unholy suffering alone without a cause. Do you still believe everything is as god wants it? that is your call.

and madace you have repeatedly used the same unproven points anyway. Your positions are defensible only because you repeat them and ignore me 30 times

Edit: Just because there are a few billboards, youtube channels, books written, apparal sold, and some celebrities who don't believe in god doesn't mean there is a culture. I'm sure chairs and carrots have many of these same things present in society. Are they a culture? And you still cannot have a culture surrounding a non-entity. By definition a culture is something in which many people have similar beliefs or tendancies or opinions based around and shared through organized, or disorganized discource. The only universal thing we share is that we don't have a belief in god, that is it. You cannot base a definition on a negative. That is like saying we all belong to the culture of zeus-deniers. We have no similar traditions, history, art, language, or anything of the sort. There is a difference between culture and appreciation or fanboy-ism.

So you're basically saying religion came to be... how? Remember that this experiment has run for great length and in great detail (see the whole of human history). And in almost every culture religion came to be in some form or another.
I'd like to see some proof for your assumption that atheism is the default state of being and that this is a superior state altogether.

I applaud your naivety in suggesting one's beliefs can not be changed through coercion. You're cutely blissfully unaware of propaganda, indoctrination and brainwashing. It's quite a horrific world out there and it won't really harm you by thinking one can't be tortured or otherwise forced to think differently. You see, contrary to some I know that perfect knowledge of reality isn't the best way to live. So I'll just allow you your ignorance.

Can you quote me saying atheism is a culture? Could be I said it but I can't remember doing so.
I intended to say atheism is used as a tribe.

[JuliusCaesar]

More picking hairs I see. And the matter of belief coercion is so entirely subjective I really don't feel like debating it. Sorry.

People have died for their beliefs, killed for them, simply changed them, changed them under duress, extreme torture or peril, while some endure it all for them. I see no conflict.

[MadAce]

More picking hairs I see. And the matter of belief coercion is so entirely subjective I really don't feel like debating it. Sorry.

People have died for their beliefs, killed for them, simply changed them, changed them under duress, extreme torture or peril, while some endure it all for them. I see no conflict.

Admitting you were wrong will only make you stronger in this case. Clinging to lies which you do not believe yourself, and which do not make you a batter person, shows a lot more weakness.

[JuliusCaesar]

I'm not lying and you aren't convincing anyone to agree with your cynicism.

[JesusRocks765]

More picking hairs I see. And the matter of belief coercion is so entirely subjective I really don't feel like debating it. Sorry.

People have died for their beliefs, killed for them, simply changed them, changed them under duress, extreme torture or peril, while some endure it all for them. I see no conflict.

Admitting you were wrong will only make you stronger in this case. Clinging to lies which you do not believe yourself, and which do not make you a batter person, shows a lot more weakness.

Thats for sure, too bad JC is too arrogant to do this.

[General_Neox]

MadAce just a random question

but why do you even care to comment on these forums anymore?

[MadAce]

MadAce just a random question

but why do you even care to comment on these forums anymore?

It's good practice.

[GRAWRG.]

you're such a piece of BBQ. at least say you're entertained so that you're gaining something from this.

good practice? ohhhhhhh im madace and im so much smarter than everyone on sge forums. you arent even worth my time. but im going to check back here multiple times a day. because... because.... no, no im not entertained, or bored... because.... it's good practice. yeah. that's right. you guys arent even good arguers. im just practicing for arguing with people who are on my level. because im madace, and if i say arguing with smart people is a productive use of my time, then it is so. and it MUST be productive, because otherwise theres no point in doing it, and it would be illogical... but im figging madace, nothing i do is illogical!

[JesusRocks765]

you're such a piece of BBQ. at least say you're entertained so that you're gaining something from this.

good practice? ohhhhhhh im madace and im so much smarter than everyone on sge forums. you arent even worth my time. but im going to check back here multiple times a day. because... because.... no, no im not entertained, or bored... because.... it's good practice. yeah. that's right. you guys arent even good arguers. im just practicing for arguing with people who are on my level. because im madace, and if i say arguing with smart people is a productive use of my time, then it is so. and it MUST be productive, because otherwise theres no point in doing it, and it would be illogical... but im figging madace, nothing i do is illogical!

I don't remember you being invited into the argument or wanted here...

[JuliusCaesar]

Her point is no less valid. And JR, you are in no position to say who is and who isn't wanted here

[JesusRocks765]

Why does she randomly attack madace? When did he insult GRAWRG? I think shes just looking for another fight since shes bored but idk.

Now how about not pretetending GRAWRG doesnt exist and let her answer my question herself.

[JuliusCaesar]

Why should I do that? And one doesn't need to be personally attacked to speak up.

[JesusRocks765]

Why should I do that? And one doesn't need to be personally attacked to speak up.

She just randomly attacked Madace in her post - he didn't offend her or anything - unless verbally hurting you hurts her as well.

Now the next one to post should be madace or grawrg, not us 2 analyzing their fight.

[GRAWRG.]

my post was actually half humorous. to me at least. my feelings were sincere, but i wasnt looking to get into an argument... if you comprehended the post you would have concluded that it is my understanding that madace is an extremely annoying person to talk to in most cases.

madace is like.... a wall you wake up to every morning. with a giant smiley face on it just to piss you off when you wake up tired every morning. with the words "you hugging suck" written under it. it's annoying and dickish, but it's a wall. so when you wake up... you can throw things at it if you want. but nothings going to change. unless one day you move.

or set it on fire

humor again.

and this is JC's topic. if you make your own and tell me to stay out of THERE, ... chances are that i will. i would feel like i was walking into a house filled with southern christians, while wearing a satanist tshirt or something. why would i want to be there if i knew i was unwanted? i wouldnt.

i also feel i should point out that im not saying anything about the validity of any of madace's points. i remember being particularly annoyed when i realized that capital punishment is immoral after reading his argument against it. i like it when bad people die, so it was a sad day.

my point is that madace is an absolute paaaaiinnnn to have a conversation with (in most cases ive seen), and frankly i was just wanted to release some of the annoyance i felt after reading his post.

[GRAWRG.]

this is a bit off topic, but i think my mom is drugging me. in my sleep possibly. theres this very strange loop in my head. im feeling drunk or drugged, and then i get paranoid about how my mom could be doing it, and then i wonder if im living in the matrix (and thats what's scariest. like, part of me is actually considering this)

this is hugging weird bros. my laptop just looked not flat. like, the keyboard part was arched.

i forget how it loops... but i know there was a loop. i dont know that it made sense. i havent been able to look back and re-evaluate it. im rambling...

right. logic. i was thinking dehydration or low blood sugar? is this normal behavior for such cases.... 0.o

[JesusRocks765]

this is a bit off topic, but i think my mom is drugging me. in my sleep possibly. theres this very strange loop in my head. im feeling drunk or drugged, and then i get paranoid about how my mom could be doing it, and then i wonder if im living in the matrix (and thats what's scariest. like, part of me is actually considering this)

this is hugging weird bros. my laptop just looked not flat. like, the keyboard part was arched.

i forget how it loops... but i know there was a loop. i dont know that it made sense. i havent been able to look back and re-evaluate it. im rambling...

right. logic. i was thinking dehydration or low blood sugar? is this normal behavior for such cases.... 0.o

So I've been not arguing with one, but TWO mentally-handicapped athiests this whole time!

No wonder it seemed so easy

[SiN]

Religion is the logical road people go down when something can't be explained by whatever limitations science has come up with at the time. People naturally default to a higher power. Perhaps if scientific understanding was as it is currently you could raise a child for a longer time than back in early history the core concept of religion wouldn't be there, but eventually there will be a question for which there is no logical answer. At that time his own ideology will form equally as preposterous as many current and former religions in order to answer the question.


Phones suck to type on.

[nine-breaker]

I HAVE PROOF THAT GOD EXISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!
My boss got forced to quit last night, if thats not God using his magical Jesus powers then I don't know what is.

(But on a serious note, Science is my religion, to have faith i first need proof.... contradiction? I think not.)

[GRAWRG.]

im not athiest. also, it makes you look dumb when you say it's easy to argue with someone who's mentally handicapped.

i think it would be difficult to argue with someone who's mentally handicapped.

[MadAce]

you're such a piece of BBQ. at least say you're entertained so that you're gaining something from this.

good practice? ohhhhhhh im madace and im so much smarter than everyone on sge forums. you arent even worth my time. but im going to check back here multiple times a day. because... because.... no, no im not entertained, or bored... because.... it's good practice. yeah. that's right. you guys arent even good arguers. im just practicing for arguing with people who are on my level. because im madace, and if i say arguing with smart people is a productive use of my time, then it is so. and it MUST be productive, because otherwise theres no point in doing it, and it would be illogical... but im figging madace, nothing i do is illogical!

Two questions:

Is there anything anyone can say to change your opinion?
Why is your opinion important?

my post was actually half humorous. to me at least. my feelings were sincere, but i wasnt looking to get into an argument... if you comprehended the post you would have concluded that it is my understanding that madace is an extremely annoying person to talk to in most cases.

madace is like.... a wall you wake up to every morning. with a giant smiley face on it just to piss you off when you wake up tired every morning. with the words "you hugging suck" written under it. it's annoying and dickish, but it's a wall. so when you wake up... you can throw things at it if you want. but nothings going to change. unless one day you move.

or set it on fire

humor again.

and this is JC's topic. if you make your own and tell me to stay out of THERE, ... chances are that i will. i would feel like i was walking into a house filled with southern christians, while wearing a satanist tshirt or something. why would i want to be there if i knew i was unwanted? i wouldnt.

i also feel i should point out that im not saying anything about the validity of any of madace's points. i remember being particularly annoyed when i realized that capital punishment is immoral after reading his argument against it. i like it when bad people die, so it was a sad day.

my point is that madace is an absolute paaaaiinnnn to have a conversation with (in most cases ive seen), and frankly i was just wanted to release some of the annoyance i felt after reading his post.

To be quite honest for a sec... There's probably something wrong with me because I found that flattering.

this is a bit off topic, but i think my mom is drugging me. in my sleep possibly. theres this very strange loop in my head. im feeling drunk or drugged, and then i get paranoid about how my mom could be doing it, and then i wonder if im living in the matrix (and thats what's scariest. like, part of me is actually considering this)

this is hugging weird bros. my laptop just looked not flat. like, the keyboard part was arched.

i forget how it loops... but i know there was a loop. i dont know that it made sense. i havent been able to look back and re-evaluate it. im rambling...

right. logic. i was thinking dehydration or low blood sugar? is this normal behavior for such cases.... 0.o

I'd see a doctor. Sounds neurotic.