The American School System

[Mel'Kaven]

I was applying for colleges and it struck me that I think the American school system is inefficient. It's not of what they teach, but how they do it. It's how they have structured the public school system. I think if the teachers weren't always at war with the district administration it could become a better learning/working environment. Perhaps if the district administration were to be cut out of the system and the schools all individually got a sum of money from the state and it would all by ran by school's administrative offices, and teachers, It could work better.

The few problems I have noticed about our public school system:

- Lunch isn't free to everyone. (Now, I know the more income you have the more you have to pay for lunch(up to max) but I think it should be free for everyone. This is almost like a tax system for children with parents that make more money but let me tell you, I have to pay 2.50$ every day for lunch. Thats 12.50 every week. And often times children forget their lunch money, and become very exhausted and tired because we didn't eat. Why can't our schools have a free lunch like many other countries civilized countries!)

- More teachers. (With budget cuts this is near impossible to fix as of now, but I think if we had more teachers (1-2 per classroom of 35 kids) the students would find it very easy to communicate their issues; social and academic. Not to mention this would also let teachers to focus more on individuals.

- Teachers stay with students. ( It sounds odd but think about it. You take English for 4 years, why not have the same English teacher for those 4 years? Towards the end of the year the teachers begin to understand how their students learn, because, really, everyone learns different. Perhaps the persistent teachers would teacher classes like: English, Algebra-Calc, Sciences.(Bio, Phys, Chem) The other classes would be, of course, electives that the students choose.

- Schedule (Why not start school later in the day so first period isn't so brain dead? Start and end 1 hour later. Said, done, over with.

With the issue of money to pay for all of this.. I say raise taxes. Which always makes me think of how perfect socialism is... Pay more taxes, get more benefits..... but Ill leave that for another discussion.

Thoughts on our public school system?

[Caia]

Welcome to 1980. Its been this way for a very very long time. And due to people not caring, its most likely going to continue to be this bad (if not worse).

[Henry]

Then go to private schools instead, and to address your points

1) Because this is a capitalist nation that is trying to cut spending, fat chance at seeing that happen. Are these civilized countries of which you speak socialist or atleast much more liberal than the US? Probably, the US is one of the most conservative of the wealthy countries in the world, if not THE most. Free lunch is not necessary.

2) Dunno bout public schools, but at the good private ones, (or in my case catholic schools) the teacher student ratio is generally low, my larger classes may be about 20, low ones near 10

3) Used to be that way (again in catholic schools) and often teachers do repeat, but for the full length, dunno bout that, students wont be able to adjust as well to new teachers when they switch schools

4) No, the schedule reflects typical work schedules, what time do your classes start anyway.


And rofl no, sorry, this is a capitalist democratic republic, not a socialist country. hug, taxes should be lowered not raised, schooling is an example of an industry run almost completely by the government, unless you go to private or catholic or w/e schools. Cut out the taxes for public schools entirely, turn schooling completely over to the private sector, competition to provide the best education, elementary, middle, and highschools will reflect the competition present in collages, that would be ideal. There are alot of catholic/private high schools, but thats nothing compared to the competition with collages. Thats what the entire system needs, when public schooling was put in place it was because there was no such thing as school really.

As far as people who cannot afford to go to a private school, 1, they wouldn't have to pay taxes on any public schooling, (30% of your taxes go to public schooling, that seems to be a number i came across alot when researching) and they could go into a lower level school who's tuition would be at or below the amount they payed for taxes.

[GRAWRG.]

the school system is hugged. i dont think lunch should be free for everyone because socialism in its entirety is not appealing to me. i think lunches should be able to be charged to an extent though, and in my experience they always have. ive never seen a kid denied lunch because they havent paid.. back when i used to eat lunch in.. elementary school though, if you owed a certain amount they made you eat PBJ. i dont think its legal for them to deny you food.. but possibly to deny you the food you WANT.

i dont like standardized requirements. why should i have to take 4 years of english.. jesus, 4 years of english has done nothing for me. wait. no, i take that back. i spelled surprised wrong in .. 9th grade? and i havent since. thats what ive gotten from english. that ALONE. now im not sure how i feel about having the same teacher for 4 years. i would like the consistency, but what if the teaching quality is poor? my science teacher has taught the same students for 3 years now, and will teach the same kids next year. he wasnt a bad teacher this year, but i had him last year and he was pretty shitty. + people learn different with different people. and OMG, my math teacher last year was a I love you man!. i learn better when my teachers are nice.. shocking right? 0.o

i think most courses are standard, apart from english. english has always been.. whatever. one year im writing 8 page papers and getting graded by a nazi, the next year im writing a two page paper and getting a 100? really? a 100 on a paper? absolutely no consistency. english teachers pretty much do whatever the hell they want and you learn nothing.

GPAs? wtf is this BBQ? at my old school a 93 was 4 pts. pretty simple. honors courses were an extra point. no available AP or college courses. my current school, a 96 is 4 pts. honors courses, AP courses, and college courses are all 1 extra point. the AP courses are twice as hard as the online community college courses, which are easier that common placement courses.. then theres my cousins school, where a 90 is 4 pts. no extra pts for honors. loads of AP options, which are 1 extra point. no college course options. its all pretty crazy. + what about the people who switch schools.. if i went back to a school with no AP courses? would my AP weight stand or would they shave the pt so id be left with an annoyingly low weighted course? the whole GPA thing is completely ridiculous imo.

i live in NC. teachers get paid what they get paid, or they get a new job. hug the ridiculousness going on in wisconsin or wherever the hell thats going on. do your job and put up with it or get another one, its really not complicated.

what else.. i think education should be national. everyone would get pissy about it, but i mean really? all these different graduation requirements is ridiculous. kids who transfer to another state senior year are usually stuck taking courses with freshman or something because they're missing certain courses. in NC, we have to take environmental science to graduate. we take it as freshmen.

i think we should pay teachers more. higher salary means more people will want the job, which means we wont have to have shitty teachers. quality education benefits the country as a whole.

and i like the general idea of the german school system.. separating kids at a fairly young age. lets face it, those kids in my online class taking algebra online because they've failed it a few times already are going to work at mcdonalds, not NASA. dont waste their time, and id rather not be bothered by them tbh. i need to get a life. this post is too long.

[Henry]

The GPA system does need fixing, personally I find it too different for every school that its just unreliable. Ours makes the most sense, A at 92, which is a 4 in CP, 5 in honors, and 6 in AP, but w/e

I'm still waiting for our communist friend to challenge my capitalist ideals XD

[CrazyChef]

Free lunch = shitty food. Cafeteria food isn't top quality, but it isn't bottom quality either. And 2.50 for a full meal isn't that bad, but if you are so fed up with having to spend money on food, just pack your own lunch, even though brining your own lunch is more expensive than buying it at school.

The High School I graduated from had some good teachers that actually knew how to teach what they were teaching. In my chemistry class if you failed it was because you failed not the teacher, and when you did fail, the teacher was there to help you understand why you weren't understanding. Those are the teachers we need in school.

Even if you shift schooling to the private sector the government will tax you for the same amount of money to buy their cocaine and hookers, I mean the government funded healthcare system we were promised when Obama got elected.

Teachers do need to stop passing kids, because they just feel bad or don't want to re-teach them the next year. Same with giving passing grades to the "jocks" so they can play in the big game this week lol

[Henry]

Even if you shift schooling to the private sector the government will tax you for the same amount of money to buy their cocaine and hookers, I mean the government funded healthcare system we were promised when Obama got elected.

Not if you eliminate public schooling and all taxes associated with it!

[MadAce]

The way this topic is playing out is so ironic it hurts.

[Chicboy]

If you have money, you get a good education in America. That's the stereotype of American education in the UK

[WeGotDeathStar]

The public school system is filled with teachers with their own agenda or teachers that have tenure and do not care about the students or job performance anymore. Teachers are not punished for their failures of doing the job they are paid for. Plus they get summers off which is a pretty good gig.

Enter the good teachers that try to make a difference in a child's life only to be squashed by the teachers union pushing the concept that doing less is better to satisfy their inflated school budgets. If you want a lunch go to the store and buy whatever it is you wish to consume during the course of the day, it is not anybody else's responsibility but your own to feed oneself.

If you think socialism is so good then I suggest you go move to Cuba, where people are proud to bring home that "new" 1970's automobile and has the government there to wipe the asses of their citizens. Ever wonder why people do anything they can to get out of Cuba?

Anywhere socialism is tried in the world it has failed, a nation can not support the burden of having the so called rich pay for the poor. Wealth redistribution does not work ever. The government can barely operate efficiently as is...you think by stealing it's individuals wealth that it will really be applied to the poor people? Nope it will never happen, greedy politicians line their pockets with the cash and waste it all on redundant social programs that are failures.


I really wonder what teacher filled mel's head up with this socialism bullsh1t, but that is what they love to do best....push their own agendas on young minds in order to perpetuate the system for generations to follow. Get rid of the teachers union and get people in there that actually want to do the job they are paid for....teaching students what they need to know to succeed in life and better themselves and the country they live in. Not produce bottom feeders that are looking for a free handout on the dime of hardworking Americans.


Hence the term "There is no such thing as a free lunch"

[Mel'Kaven]

The way this topic is playing out is so ironic it hurts.

/love pain

[tekkamanblade]

the district admin, teachers, etc have not a whole lot to do with the problem. the problem is the origin and purpose of the school system itself. they were designed to turn children into factory slaves for the industrial revolution. they weren't designed to create well educated people capable of independent thought. the fact that its government funded should show you that. their only interest is amassing wealth and being secure in their power, and a free thinking well educated populace isn't conducive to that.

[MadAce]

the district admin, teachers, etc have not a whole lot to do with the problem. the problem is the origin and purpose of the school system itself. they were designed to turn children into factory slaves for the industrial revolution. they weren't designed to create well educated people capable of independent thought. the fact that its government funded should show you that. their only interest is amassing wealth and being secure in their power, and a free thinking well educated populace isn't conducive to that.

I'm mostly agreeing with you in the sense that the school system is a direct descendant and servant of the industrial revolution and isn't relevant in the least in today's society.

However I would advise you to look up Hanlon's Razor. Also Clark's Law.

[BardockSGE]

I hated high school.

But never fear kiddies, college was a blast. And agree'd, mel.

[GRAWRG.]

The GPA system does need fixing, personally I find it too different for every school that its just unreliable. Ours makes the most sense, A at 92, which is a 4 in CP, 5 in honors, and 6 in AP, but w/e

I'm still waiting for our communist friend to challenge my capitalist ideals XD

a standard a is a 93. 92 is a b. so your school is weird in that sense, but the rest makes sense. ive only taken 1 AP course at my school, but it took a lot of effort. so i think max weight should be for AP. but then theres the community college courses online.. which are super duper easy. i think those should be weighted -.5, but that wouldnt make sense so id say 4 points.

i disagree with tek though. i dont know about how the school system came into existence, but i know that the system and teachers play a huge role in why our education sucks. problems ive seen are.. 1) stupid kids are always mixed in with smart kids, theres less motivation when you're already the smartest person around. 2) wow, i can see the blood rushing through my stomach. its like, pulsating. anyway, 2) shits not standardized, people end up taking courses they dont need to take because theyve moved, blah blah 3) im forced to take way too many classes that i dont need, IE, four english classes. one would have been understandable, but my english is more than adequate. 4) shitty teachers. everyone learns differently, but some teachers just suck. teachers who do nothing but assign bookwork and dont even check it themselves? mean teachers? bleh. idk what else. gnite.

[tekkamanblade]

i have made the "good teacher" argument on youtube before, but its fail. this is what i know now...

i could get locked in federal prison and still find a person with true wisdom to share and whose influence on me was positive even in that shitty government induced situation. similarly, good teachers can inspire you to break out of metaphorical prisons for your mind, show the joy of real learning, etc ... but what if the entire school system wasn't building those prisons and rounding people up into them in the first place? presumably, everyone would be freer, with freer minds, and it would be easier to find more higher quality targets for interaction.

oh and madace, i looked at those rules of logic or w/e you were on about. makes sense that stupidity rather than intentional ill will could be the cause of the majority of human suffering. i have never disagreed with this idea. but how OLD are they and where from? it could be possible that people were either more/less evil or more/less stupid across various times and regions. unless you are claiming that human nature is an unalterable universal constant immune to time/space.

[MadAce]

oh and madace, i looked at those rules of logic or w/e you were on about. makes sense that stupidity rather than intentional ill will could be the cause of the majority of human suffering. i have never disagreed with this idea. but how OLD are they and where from? it could be possible that people were either more/less evil or more/less stupid across various times and regions. unless you are claiming that human nature is an unalterable universal constant immune to time/space.

You should first ask yourself the question "What are good and evil exactly?".

[tekkamanblade]

no need to ask that. i played dungeons and dragons, so im fully versed in all matters of alignment.