Complaints about Ship Mods

[Toonces]

It has come to my attention that some people think the mod system should be removed. Do you support this idea, support keeping the system as is, or support keeping the system with some complaints addressed. If you favor the 3rd option, what are your complaints about the system (for example, is one of the weapons or mods causing game play to be less fun?)

[Camaril]

im thinking if it isn't to much trouble you should make some servers pre-mod and some servers after mod bla-bla-bla.

then the vets can have what they want and still have no area (hopefully) to complain in.

[-nox-]

I voted adress complaints. Basically, I like the ship mods but balance seems to clearly be an issue. Generally I think balance has largely been improved with some of the latest patches, but should always keep that in mind

P.S.

woot for toonces' forum activity!

[breakdown]

I personally like the mods a lot. I think it's pretty clear they're being balanced and once they are it should be great.

[Saber-Fury]

It has come to my attention that some people think the mod system should be removed. Do you support this idea, support keeping the system as is, or support keeping the system with some complaints addressed. If you favor the 3rd option, what are your complaints about the system (for example, is one of the weapons or mods causing game play to be less fun?)

For me, at least, the old system took more skill, and thus made it more fun. Mods may have seemed like an idea meant to diversify gameplay and introduce new strategy, but they are far from that. Now it's essentially a rock/paper/scissors triangle of using something that can counter what your opponent has. The one main factor about mods that makes them less fun is that it's more important to know which modset is good against another than to actually be skilled at a particular technique or operating a mod, whereas before everyone started off on a level playing field, and if you could beat someone you usually had to be better then them. Now they just have to use mods which work well against yours.

There is no real range of skill level with using them at all. For example; say before mods, skill could be measured on a 1-10 scale. Now it's measurable on about a 1-3 scale, and you get at least a 2 if you're fast at spamming the weapon mods keys.

it feels like runescape - you get equipment that works well against your opponent, then you go out there and hold a few buttons down. When they start to lose they run away and go get something that beats what you have... then you run away and go get something which beats what they have... etc.

[Camaril]

but what about the unskillfull people at fighting like me?

[Saber-Fury]

Oh also at the very least I think several servers should lose mods alltogether. Perhaps everything before HC would go back to pre-mod, and everything after that including HC would stay the way it is. This would be the most logical breaking point because I think when mods were introduced, HC was the most recent server.

[Camaril]

im thinking if it isn't to much trouble you should make some servers pre-mod and some servers after mod bla-bla-bla.

then the vets can have what they want and still have no area (hopefully) to complain in.

idea stealer

[duece]

I'm surprised the third option didn't get the most votes, I suspect it's a lot of people's second choice.

I agree with saber. At first I loved the idea of the diversity in gameplay, and the strategies involving teamwork, etc. But it became apparent after a while that it reduced the skill factor in combat significantly, and replaced it with a super generic rock/paper/scissors thing that every game ever has used. Keep the mods, but scrap the third party weapons. Or if you want to keep em, come up with new ones instead of using the specials from other ships.

Generally I don't think mods should have all that much of a swing in your stats. So I'd like improved base stats and reduced mod bonuses.

If the weapon mods are here to stay, then work on balancing everything out I guess.

That level playing field and skill based interactions was one of the things that made starport unique, and was always my number 1 selling point of it. So I'd like anything that moved in the direction of emphasizing that.

[Frozen.Soul]

I voted remove all but 3rd weapon

[zanth]

just realizing this now?

[Barefoot]

I'd be ok with the 3rd option or the last option. I voted to keep and address complaints since you seem to be doing a good job balancing out some of the weapon mods.

It's funny that you post this topic now that you've done some much-needed balancing of the over-powered mods that made the game less fun. Now that tractor, flower, and point defense are more in line with other weapon modules, I don't really have any complaints anymore with the system.

[ArdRhys4]

I'd be ok with the 3rd option or the last option. I voted to keep and address complaints since you seem to be doing a good job balancing out some of the weapon mods.

It's funny that you post this topic now that you've done some much-needed balancing of the over-powered mods that made the game less fun. Now that tractor, flower, and point defense are more in line with other weapon modules, I don't really have any complaints anymore with the system.

I'd say that it is now time to increase the strength of the three range extending mods as they are nigh-useless.

[BardockSGE]

Toonces, first of all I'm very impressed that you'd make a forum like this, and I'm quite impressed with your recent attempts on trying to make the game more balanced. Issue is, you can't satisfy all of us.

I dislike mods.

Others love them.

Perhaps you could make servers that were exculsive to modules? That way, there was something for everybody? It'd also make servers more special in their own way, wouldn't it?

I don't think removing modules completely is the solution to anything. What I think would have been the perfect solution was to make one true blue classic server, that way, hey if you don't like modules, we have a classic server. That's what I think can solve a lot of problems some of us older fans have with new aged starport.

I promise you this. If there was one true classic server. It'd be VERY popular, and I can almost guarantee you, old players and new players alike would enjoy such a server.

Again Toonces, keep up the great work of trying to correct the balance of the game, I'm quite pleased with the recent updates, besides the tractor change.

[ArdRhys4]

Toonces, first of all I'm very impressed that you'd make a forum like this, and I'm quite impressed with your recent attempts on trying to make the game more balanced. Issue is, you can't satisfy all of us.

I dislike mods.

Others love them.

Perhaps you could make servers that were exculsive to modules? That way, there was something for everybody? It'd also make servers more special in their own way, wouldn't it?

I don't think removing modules completely is the solution to anything. What I think would have been the perfect solution was to make one true blue classic server, that way, hey if you don't like modules, we have a classic server. That's what I think can solve a lot of problems some of us older fans have with new aged starport.

I promise you this. If there was one true classic server. It'd be VERY popular, and I can almost guarantee you, old players and new players alike would enjoy such a server.

Again Toonces, keep up the great work of trying to correct the balance of the game, I'm quite pleased with the recent updates, besides the tractor change.

I agree. Such a server would be well differentiated from the other servers which would lead to a "product" which would satisfy a different niche within your current niche. This would solve many of the problems with losing your old playerbase in exchange for a more newbie-friendly game. I see a few problems with this however...

• 1) You may not have the old information saved.

• 2) Patches will have to be directed to specific servers (slight problem at beginning if you decide to simply make it so that you can choose which servers a patch is directed towards - Once this is done, it would be as simple as {WARNING: over-simplification + not entirely true, but close enough to get idea for non-programmers} telling it to affect servers that are type: non-classic/classic or #1,4,6,8,9,10,etc). To get this working the first time would most likely be very frustrating. However, upon its completion, the amount of work necessary would be minimal to have this working.

• 3) How far back should you go?

[M2-Destroyer]

Toonces,

In the past you have made decisions that didn't go down well with the community like pollution modifications. But at the end of the day, the community adapted.

It seems to be the older players who dislike the change, but if you remove this feature, it will be the newer players who suffer, as they don't have any knowledge of previous game-style, therefore will feel it is a negative change.

I feel that the mods should be left as is, players will adapt.

[kenoneill]

ive come up with an idea that might even out the weapons side of the mods at least. if anyone can think of a way to extend it to all mods it could be a brilliant thing. check out viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18097

[BardockSGE]

Personally, I would like to see another skill based war again some day. If a classic server can't be done, remove mods.

[breakdown]

If cargo bulkheads get removed I quit building. I adapted to that a little too much perhaps. >.>

[MutedJazz]

The problem we will have with splitting servers premod/postmod; we will be splitting the community. It would start to resemble two different games and toonces would have to do twice the amount of work making new patches fit with each set-up.

[inevamis]

For me the mods, especially the weapons mods, took some of the magic out of Starport. The one thing that I think really made Starport unique was the depth of skill you could develop in piloting. I mean you could develop your skill to the point that 1 person could take on 5 people even though they have the exact same ship. I found that amazing and I think thats the kind of thing that inspired people to play for so long and try to master the game. Sliding and nuke dodging were the intangibles that really made the game exciting imo. Originally surface missiles kind of killed the need for sliding too but I heard they were nerfed or something.

The death of nuke dodging was really sad for me because that was one of the treasures of Starport. Fighting in most simple games is kind of like rock, paper, scissors, as was mentioned, but nuke dodging made it really special imo. You really could hold your fate in your own hands to the amount you developed your skill.

[inevamis]

Toonces,

In the past you have made decisions that didn't go down well with the community like pollution modifications. But at the end of the day, the community adapted.

It seems to be the older players who dislike the change, but if you remove this feature, it will be the newer players who suffer, as they don't have any knowledge of previous game-style, therefore will feel it is a negative change.

I feel that the mods should be left as is, players will adapt.

They adapted but they never liked it. I think a whole demographic of player was possibly lost (the kind that don't have the patience for it). Toonces really needs to treat Starport as if its in a Beta version. The game has never reached a tipping point... the community really hasn't grown at all over the 3 or 4 years I've followed it.. if anything it has gotten smaller. I feel like the community has shrunk post mods patch.

[BardockSGE]

Toonces,

In the past you have made decisions that didn't go down well with the community like pollution modifications. But at the end of the day, the community adapted.

It seems to be the older players who dislike the change, but if you remove this feature, it will be the newer players who suffer, as they don't have any knowledge of previous game-style, therefore will feel it is a negative change.

I feel that the mods should be left as is, players will adapt.

They adapted but they never liked it. I think a whole demographic of player was possibly lost (the kind that don't have the patience for it). Toonces really needs to treat Starport as if its in a Beta version. The game has never reached a tipping point... the community really hasn't grown at all over the 3 or 4 years I've followed it.. if anything it has gotten smaller. I feel like the community has shrunk post mods patch.

Agree'd. 'ey if and when mods are gone, you and I could have us a good 1v1 like the old days.

[zanth]

Alright, so now we are talking about taking the mods out, but since you put them in what will the new people think. Im talking about people who have only been playing with mods like what happens to them. Your so used to shooting missiles infinate out of your ship and using energy dynamos in order to increase your energy. well what the hell does this do to them, you cant just make a change so drastic the impact that it would have you would have a whole bunch of people who played before mods but none that played after mods. You would be in a worse situation than you are now. You would have to bang a server that was pre mod for all the new people. and you would have to manually sort through every one who has played after the mods came out as new accounts and only allow them to play there because they would be so out matched. You would have to set the ships decrease laser strength and there's tons more that you would have to do. While implementing the mods you completely destroyed player vs. player.

Heres how it went down
"Hi here have point defense be in sanely strong on permas"
"Well looks like i have to decrease the strength of point defense HAVE FUN ON REBANGS with your 10 charma and 0 artis and 5 dex."
Well.... does this seem fair no because its not

Now we are int he future with mods there is a decent crowd playing now
"HEY EVERYONE WHO HAS ONLY PLAYED AFTER MODS NO MORE MODS"

newest players "SEE YA STARPORT"
thats whats going to happen so now your in situation that you created your self trying to make the game fun, the game was plenty fun you made it un-fun you know how. Players with 16k shields can go invisible players can stop nukes in a ship that can take a hit by nuke

Now leme nerf the ships so then you have to use mods in order to make your ship back to the way it was.

All in all the mods were a big fail but we have learned and now you have to fix it, how do you plan on doing so you cannot just take them out poof out.

just like bardock said make mod exclusive servers i suppose, thats probably the best solution here. you would either have to have a genuine poll for the current servers or you would have to bang new ones and leave the old ones as mod usage ones.

[kenoneill]

Toonces, first of all I'm very impressed that you'd make a forum like this, and I'm quite impressed with your recent attempts on trying to make the game more balanced. Issue is, you can't satisfy all of us.

I dislike mods.

Others love them.

Perhaps you could make servers that were exculsive to modules? That way, there was something for everybody? It'd also make servers more special in their own way, wouldn't it?

I don't think removing modules completely is the solution to anything. What I think would have been the perfect solution was to make one true blue classic server, that way, hey if you don't like modules, we have a classic server. That's what I think can solve a lot of problems some of us older fans have with new aged starport.

I promise you this. If there was one true classic server. It'd be VERY popular, and I can almost guarantee you, old players and new players alike would enjoy such a server.

Again Toonces, keep up the great work of trying to correct the balance of the game, I'm quite pleased with the recent updates, besides the tractor change.

i think there should be a vote on every server as to wheather the people on there want mods or not, and not a poxy forums poll. make it that players from the individual servers type in /bug ya or na on mods. then there would be a true repersentation of the servers and how the people on there feel. this way toonces could check who voted on the servers and wheather they just created characters on the server to vote and he could weed them out to get to what the ppl there really want

[Barefoot]

Fun benefits of modules that I'll trade the 'treasure' of turning in a circle to dodge nukes anyday...

Fighting:
- not having to clear lasered systems with torps/firewave/grav
- being able to attack invaders in space while they try to invade me because of ability to clear lasers in space
- diversified the mundane torp/nuke fights with emp, flower, tractor, and other fun ways to quickly (or slowly) blow someone up.
- rewards teamwork (correctly communicating enemy weapon module setups and countering, thus pwning the other team)

Invading:
- being able to tailor your ship setup to the colony defenses. On layouts defended with many mines, neutron plating and shield capacitors come in handy; on layouts where speed is essential, extra flight mods come in handy. Heck, when you want to try that ridiculous domeslide, and you know you won't have enough energy to cap because of all the lasers... get some energy dynamos!

- having to make a choice while invading of whether to save a module spot for point defense (or other defensive mods).... also catching someone invading you without this module spot and sending them to sol

Building:
- HELLOOOO.... Cargo bulkheads? The players have been asking for less tedious building forever. Bulkheads not only take less trips for resources, but you can make a LOT more money in rebangs - this populated rebangs a lot more. It's also easier for newbs to make money without hemorrhaging their warp fuel

-Point defense is probably overpriced in 14 day bangs, but in extended bangs it's quite useful.

Those are just a few I could think of off the top of my head...

[zanth]

you dont understand mods are almost unobtainable in rebangs which makes them usless and thats why mods are no fun turning in circles to dodge nukes was fun. having a reason to get an isc was fun having a seth with an emp was fun its no longer fun you no longer need skill its borderline insanity. you just like an easy game.

NOT TO MENTION the fact most of the things you put up there would be weapons. i have issues with al lthe weapons that weren't originally in the game.

only mods that i have issues with consist of nuetron plating and energy dynamo and the biggest thing was how he killed ships to make mods happen They "make your ship better" but it was actually better before mods.

[Barefoot]

you dont understand mods are almost unobtainable in rebangs which makes them usless

Yes, I do understand they are practically useless in 14 day bangs. Do YOU understand that rebangs could be 14 day, 18 day, 60 day, or 72 days long? Mods are quite obtainable in longer rebangs.

NOT TO MENTION the fact most of the things you put up there would be weapons. i have issues with al lthe weapons that weren't originally in the game.

This thread is about both removing weapons mods AND all mods isn't it?

only mods that i have issues with consist of nuetron plating and energy dynamo and the biggest thing was how he killed ships to make mods happen They "make your ship better" but it was actually better before mods.

I agree with this. It would have been a lot better if the base ships hadn't been weakened so badly. This makes module setups necessary to survive in permaverses. In short rebangs, it means you're going to have a cruddy ship the whole game.

[SiN]

Agree with Bardock.

Have a perm or two with mods and a couple without. Nuff said.

Mods themselves have ups and downs. Imo the implementation was poorly done but the overall idea was great. I'm for the complete removal of weapons mods but leave the ship mods. Set old base stats on ships (2 years ago or so) and weaken the flight mods a bit or limit the number of one kind of module you can have.

my quickly written 2 cents.

[MastrIan]

The main problem I have with mods is that it nerfed the base stats of ships, this makes sense if you are going to be adding on to them, but this adds a real nerf to the beginning of rebangs. No one can afford mods for most of the game and then being able to use any weapon or add on module it reduces the the need for the other ships, vulture is supposed to be slow and low on shields for a reason.

Rebangs especially is where I think modules unbalanced gameplay

_______________________
Thorin | Save The Rebangs