P5 debates

[JuliusCaesar]

nice stuff Ken.

And Dave I should point out that it is precisely that statement why there are growing numbers of atheists. Most of tse questions have answers.

And suislide's/madace's debate has fallen to ad hominem attacks, lol.

[MadAce]

nice stuff Ken.

And Dave I should point out that it is precisely that statement why there are growing numbers of atheists. Most of tse questions have answers.

And suislide's/madace's debate has fallen to ad hominem attacks, lol.

Do you honestly believe any kind of argument would persuade suislide? I don't.



Oh, and to clarify. I do see a point to religion, do not consider it the cause of the world's evils and am pretty sure god(s) exist(s).

[SuiSlide]

I'm not arguing.

I'm just saying that science can't prove if god does or does not exist. The reason I said anything about things from that past, such as the world being flat ect., is that we are soo young and still know soo little about everything. Who knows what will be proven 1000 years from now? Don't be so quick to dismiss things if you don't have proof of it. I'm not bashing science and theory, and I'm not bashing any of you people, you are all allowed to believe whatever you want. Just saying don't close your mind to things that appear to be "impossible".

Julius, you don't believe in anything more to life than what can be seen or proved. Thats makes me sad for you. I hope someday you wake up with something more to live for. You condem people for thier actions. Remember God gave man free will, they will burn people and be scared of what they don't understand or like, they crucified Jesus remember. You can't say God told these people to burn the "witches". And like madace said, I don't really believe in religion in a sense. Religion is set by people. There are soo many religions and some very extreme interpritations of the bible and the word of god.

[MadAce]

I'm not arguing.

I'm just saying that science can't prove if god does or does not exist. The reason I said anything about things from that past, such as the world being flat ect., is that we are soo young and still know soo little about everything. Who knows what will be proven 1000 years from now? Don't be so quick to dismiss things if you don't have proof of it. I'm not bashing science and theory, and I'm not bashing any of you people, you are all allowed to believe whatever you want. Just saying don't close your mind to things that appear to be "impossible".

Julius, you don't believe in anything more to life than what can be seen or proved. Thats makes me sad for you. I hope someday you wake up with something more to live for. You condem people for thier actions. Remember God gave man free will, they will burn people and be scared of what they don't understand or like, they crucified Jesus remember. You can't say God told these people to burn the "witches". And like madace said, I don't really believe in religion in a sense. Religion is set by people. There are soo many religions and some very extreme interpritations of the bible and the word of god.

Don't say stupid stuff like evolution not being proven.

[SuiSlide]

I'm not arguing.

I'm just saying that science can't prove if god does or does not exist. The reason I said anything about things from that past, such as the world being flat ect., is that we are soo young and still know soo little about everything. Who knows what will be proven 1000 years from now? Don't be so quick to dismiss things if you don't have proof of it. I'm not bashing science and theory, and I'm not bashing any of you people, you are all allowed to believe whatever you want. Just saying don't close your mind to things that appear to be "impossible".

Julius, you don't believe in anything more to life than what can be seen or proved. Thats makes me sad for you. I hope someday you wake up with something more to live for. You condem people for thier actions. Remember God gave man free will, they will burn people and be scared of what they don't understand or like, they crucified Jesus remember. You can't say God told these people to burn the "witches". And like madace said, I don't really believe in religion in a sense. Religion is set by people. There are soo many religions and some very extreme interpritations of the bible and the word of god.

Don't say stupid stuff like evolution not being proven.

It's not stupid because there isn't 100 percent proof of it yet.

I'm sorry cuz I hate to quote things from the internet but after a lot of searching and reading on the subject (over the last few years) this quote seems to sum it up the best for me.


"There are is no absolute proof of evolution.

3 main points of conjecture.

1: evolution has never been witnessed.

2: We science are constantly trying to prove the theory of evoloution with the theory that life self generated is a pool of amino acids and proteins by complete chance....so far all experiments to attempt to manufacture a self replicating DNA based Molecule have come to no result. there is some evidence suppoting RNA based molcules though. Also if succesful this wouold pose an interesting paradox about creation..being we Science created a self replicating molecule...it did not create itself as theory of eveoloution works.

3: Fosil record is incomplete, yes sure we share similar bone structures to other animals etc.. but there is no defined developmental line of slight mutation per generation to warrant it being evidence for the time being, but it is getting stronger."

And I'm Not saying I don't believe in evolution, I'm mearly saying there is no proof yet.

If you know something that I don't then please share it with me. I do enjoy learning. Also it's much easier to have a discussion without one party pointing at you and saying your stupid all the time. A little respect goes a long way, even if you don't respect my views.

[MadAce]

I'm not arguing.

I'm just saying that science can't prove if god does or does not exist. The reason I said anything about things from that past, such as the world being flat ect., is that we are soo young and still know soo little about everything. Who knows what will be proven 1000 years from now? Don't be so quick to dismiss things if you don't have proof of it. I'm not bashing science and theory, and I'm not bashing any of you people, you are all allowed to believe whatever you want. Just saying don't close your mind to things that appear to be "impossible".

Julius, you don't believe in anything more to life than what can be seen or proved. Thats makes me sad for you. I hope someday you wake up with something more to live for. You condem people for thier actions. Remember God gave man free will, they will burn people and be scared of what they don't understand or like, they crucified Jesus remember. You can't say God told these people to burn the "witches". And like madace said, I don't really believe in religion in a sense. Religion is set by people. There are soo many religions and some very extreme interpritations of the bible and the word of god.

Don't say stupid stuff like evolution not being proven.

It's not stupid because there isn't 100 percent proof of it yet.

I'm sorry cuz I hate to quote things from the internet but after a lot of searching and reading on the subject (over the last few years) this quote seems to sum it up the best for me.


"There are is no absolute proof of evolution.

3 main points of conjecture.

1: evolution has never been witnessed.

2: We science are constantly trying to prove the theory of evoloution with the theory that life self generated is a pool of amino acids and proteins by complete chance....so far all experiments to attempt to manufacture a self replicating DNA based Molecule have come to no result. there is some evidence suppoting RNA based molcules though. Also if succesful this wouold pose an interesting paradox about creation..being we Science created a self replicating molecule...it did not create itself as theory of eveoloution works.

3: Fosil record is incomplete, yes sure we share similar bone structures to other animals etc.. but there is no defined developmental line of slight mutation per generation to warrant it being evidence for the time being, but it is getting stronger."
And I'm Not saying I don't believe in evolution, I'm mearly saying there is no proof yet.

Of course there isn't 100% proof of it yet. There's 100% of nothing. What can you prove 100%?

Seriously. Of what things in life can you be certain? Absolutely nothing. Only one thing, actually. I think, therefore I am. That's the only thing of which you can be certain. All your sensory perceptions can be illusions.

Now off to correct you.

Oh, and the guy you're quoting made the same retard mistake you did. Claiming the theory of evolution has no proof because it's called "a theory". Yet another moron who doesn't understand the meaning of "scientific theory".

1: The reason why it's impossible to witness evolution, is because it's a very gradual process over millennia. But... Of course in this awesome universe where I'm constantly catered to (at least in arguments) evolution has been witnessed, despite the overwhelming obstacles this presents. oh, and we're certain things evolve constantly, it's just very hard to witness it. Look at multi-resistant stains of bacteria. Humans have bred multiple species in their history.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 150917.htm
http://www.livescience.com/animals/0607 ... finch.html
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1 ... e-lab.html
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/ ... in-action/

2: "We science" doesn't exist. Science is a very general concept, with at its current heart the scientific method, of which there isn't a uniform interpretation.
Also, the theory of evolution has nothing to do with the origins of life, as is commonly believed by people who are so stupid they accidentally set their house on fire by using toilet-paper. The study of the origins of life is called abiogenesis.

Anyways. Synthetic life has been created for the first time in may 2010.
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/a ... 29/5987/52

3: The fossil record can not be complete. It never will. The process of fossilization is too rare.

[SuiSlide]

Don't say stupid stuff like evolution not being proven.

Of course there isn't 100% proof of it yet. There's 100% of nothing. What can you prove 100%?

Thats All I was saying.

And I think you missed this part.

If you know something that I don't then please share it with me. I do enjoy learning. Also, it's much easier to have a discussion without one party pointing at you and saying your stupid all the time. A little respect goes a long way, even if you don't respect my views.

I will not discuss with you any further if you are going to speak like this. I have showed you respect thoughout your attacks on me. There is no need to act like that just because you don't know me.

[MadAce]

I will not discuss with you any further if you are going to speak like this. I have showed you respect thoughout your attacks on me. There is no need to act like that just because you don't know me.

Yes there is need for this.

There is no excuse for ignorance. There's even less excuses for uttering an absolute statement on a subject about which you know nothing.

If you know nothing about a subject, shut up about it.

[SuiSlide]

I will not discuss with you any further if you are going to speak like this. I have showed you respect thoughout your attacks on me. There is no need to act like that just because you don't know me.

Yes there is need for this.

There is no excuse for ignorance. There's even less excuses for uttering an absolute statement on a subject about which you know nothing.

If you know nothing about a subject, shut up about it.

No point in discussing with you further as you're too much of a child. Grow up if you want to have an actual discussion with someone. You are always commenting on peoples mental and physical age, you really are one to talk.

Don't say stupid stuff like evolution not being proven.

Of course there isn't 100% proof of it yet. There's 100% of nothing. What can you prove 100%?

I win.

Good Day.

[Saber-Fury]

Just like when Smoking was proven to be good for your health. Or that Carbs were good for your diet. Or when the world was proven to be flat.

Evolution has yet to be proven. Premortal goo? We crawled out of some soup somewhere? Who put the soup there? It came from the planet? Where did the planet come from? Where did the galaxy come from? The Big Bang? Pfft. That hasn't been proven either. You want to disbelieve what hasn't been proven? Do you not believe in alien lifeforms on other planets? Where did they come from? I believe in aliens. I believe in a higher state of being as well. Is it impossible that God Exists? No. It hasn't been proven that he does or doesn't. Is it impossible God exists on a higher plane of living, as a form of energy? NO, has it been proven? No. It also hasn't been disproven. I believe in science but I believe in other things too, as science is still flawed.

Science claims the big bang happened. No one saw this happen there is no evidence/proof. Same for the premortal soup. The Bible claims Jesus was risen from the dead, people saw this and wrote about it, yet people refuse to believe that such things are possible. Anyone can believe what they want but just because you can't see something or prove it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. That goes both ways. Right now, we have no proof of how we came into existance aside from theory.

/flame-on

I'm not going to argue with you, as it hasn't been proven that you are in fact anything but a Gameboy with the ability to formulate simple platitudes.

Code: Select all

Smoking was proven to be good for your health

It never was.

Carbs were good for your diet.

It never was.

Or when the world was proven to be flat.

It never was.

Evolution has yet to be proven.

It is.

That hasn't been proven either.

There is compelling evidence.

It also hasn't been disproven.

You can't prove a negative.

I believe in science but I believe in other things too, as science is still flawed.

Science requires no belief.

Science claims the big bang happened.

It doesn't.

No one saw this happen there is no evidence/proof.

I don't see you now, therefore there is no evidence that you exist?

people saw this and wrote about it

That hasn't been proven.

we have no proof of how we came into existance aside from theory.

We do have proof.

Please show me the proof. You have nothing but theory.

Your opinion is not proof either, so please enlighten me.


Your opinion isn't proof maddy. Neither is someone else's theory.

madace completely dissected you

just accept it

[MadAce]

I will not discuss with you any further if you are going to speak like this. I have showed you respect thoughout your attacks on me. There is no need to act like that just because you don't know me.

Yes there is need for this.

There is no excuse for ignorance. There's even less excuses for uttering an absolute statement on a subject about which you know nothing.

If you know nothing about a subject, shut up about it.

No point in discussing with you further as you're too much of a child. Grow up if you want to have an actual discussion with someone. You are always commenting on peoples mental and physical age, you really are one to talk.

You're the child. You form opinions about things you know nothing about. An adult shuts up when he doesn't know something.

[Daven]

IF there is a god, and he/she/it is this almighty being who control's everything, he/she/it is one twisted illegitimate child to have caused all the pain, suffering and death he/she/it has. If all the evil wasn't caused by this god, then god is inept and doesn't deserve worship, or is unwilling and deserves to be hated and revolted against. I myself do not believe in a god, but rather what can be proven or makes logical sense. A book written 2000 years ago isn't something i would call a credible source....

[MadAce]

IF there is a god, and he/she/it is this almighty being who control's everything, he/she/it is one twisted illegitimate child to have caused all the pain, suffering and death he/she/it has. If all the evil wasn't caused by this god, then god is inept and doesn't deserve worship, or is unwilling and deserves to be hated and revolted against. I myself do not believe in a god, but rather what can be proven or makes logical sense. A book written 2000 years ago isn't something i would call a credible source....

Okay, here's the deal. Why the hell should god, who created a friggin UNIVERSE, care about us?

[Barefoot]

Evolution was designed by God.
OH hugging HELL I DID NOT JUST SAY THAT DID I?!!!!!!!

I've always wondered why this conjecture is always overlooked.

[SnakeEyes]

I'm not arguing.

I'm just saying that science can't prove if god does or does not exist. The reason I said anything about things from that past, such as the world being flat ect., is that we are soo young and still know soo little about everything. Who knows what will be proven 1000 years from now? Don't be so quick to dismiss things if you don't have proof of it. I'm not bashing science and theory, and I'm not bashing any of you people, you are all allowed to believe whatever you want. Just saying don't close your mind to things that appear to be "impossible".

Julius, you don't believe in anything more to life than what can be seen or proved. Thats makes me sad for you. I hope someday you wake up with something more to live for. You condem people for thier actions. Remember God gave man free will, they will burn people and be scared of what they don't understand or like, they crucified Jesus remember. You can't say God told these people to burn the "witches". And like madace said, I don't really believe in religion in a sense. Religion is set by people. There are soo many religions and some very extreme interpritations of the bible and the word of god.

Don't say stupid stuff like evolution not being proven.

It's not stupid because there isn't 100 percent proof of it yet.

I'm sorry cuz I hate to quote things from the internet but after a lot of searching and reading on the subject (over the last few years) this quote seems to sum it up the best for me.


"There are is no absolute proof of evolution.

3 main points of conjecture.

1: evolution has never been witnessed.

FALSE. "Evolution has been observed, both directly and indirectly. It is true. See the Five Major Misconceptions about Evolution FAQ: Evolution Has Never Been Observed and 29 Evidences for Macroevolution."

2: We science are constantly trying to prove the theory of evoloution with the theory that life self generated is a pool of amino acids and proteins by complete chance....so far all experiments to attempt to manufacture a self replicating DNA based Molecule have come to no result. there is some evidence suppoting RNA based molcules though. Also if succesful this wouold pose an interesting paradox about creation..being we Science created a self replicating molecule...it did not create itself as theory of eveoloution works.

FALSE. First of all, abiogenesis (what you are referring to above) is not a part of the theory of evolution. http://atheism.about.com/od/evolutionab ... lution.htm
Second, See the Probability of Abiogenesis FAQs.

3: Fosil record is incomplete, yes sure we share similar bone structures to other animals etc.. but there is no defined developmental line of slight mutation per generation to warrant it being evidence for the time being, but it is getting stronger."

"Due to the rarity of preservation and the likelihood that speciation occurs in small populations during geologically short periods of time, transitions between species are uncommon in the fossil record. Transitions at higher taxonomic levels, however, are abundant. See the Transitional Vertebrate Fossils FAQ, the Fossil Hominids FAQ, 29 Evidences for Macroevolution: Intermediate and Transitional Forms, the Punctuated Equilibria FAQ, and the February 1998 Post of the Month Missing links still missing!?."

And I'm Not saying I don't believe in evolution, I'm mearly saying there is no proof yet.

FALSE. Evolution is fact.

[MadAce]

FALSE. Evolution is fact.

Thanks for the back-up. Those are some amazing sources.

But you kinda nuked someone who was already nuked.

[nine-breaker]

People think that evolution is instantaneous, and its not, something isn't just born completely different. It's a very very slow process that can taken hundreds of thousands of years to show effect.

Cats go through cycles, shed in the summer, grow hair in the winter. Well if you put a cat in say, the Antartica (bypassing the reality that it would die from not only extreme cold and lack of food) then it would grow its winter coat. If the cat had offspring, the babies would be born with their winter coat, and it would only get thicker. Maybe on down the line they start adapting to more efficiently hunt food, so their teeth gets a little longer. Next to produce more body heat they may start getting half a millimeter bigger every couple litters. This happening over the coarse of centuries may produce a species similar to what we called the saber tooth tiger. Is the scenario improbable, probably, but the logic is sound.

[Jeb]

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

-Epicurus

Good quote.

[MadAce]

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

-Epicurus

Good quote.

No, extremely simplistic. It regards god as if he/she/it is human.

[Major]

Maybe it’s too late for an intellectual debate,
but a residue of confusion remains.

Changing with the times,
and developmentally tortured minds
are the average citizen's sources of pain.

Tell me what we’re fighting for—
I don’t remember anymore,
only temporary reprieve

And the world might cease
if we fail to tame the beast
from the faith that you release
comes an atheist peace.

Atheist peace.

Political forces rent
bitter cold winds of discontent
and the modern age emerged triumphantly.
But now it seems we've stalled
And it’s time to de-evolve
and relive the dark chapters of history

Tell me what we’re fighting for—
No progress ever came from war,
only a false sense of increase

and the world won’t wait
for the truth upon a plate
but we’re ready now to feast on an atheist peace.

Atheist peace

[JuliusCaesar]

:O
that all yours? if so you've got some talent.

[-PLAGUE-]

If he wrote it he gained some respect from me.

It's something many people can disagree with, and I love you man! at but it makes perfect sense indeed.

If humans believed in nothing beyond their life, they would simply live it for themselves and the people they love and be done with it.
There wouldn't even be war because who cares whom owns what so long as everyone gets to live their lives and survive any way they can? I mean what is there to fight for if you are to believe in nothing, no one would hate on each other for believing in the messiah or the dauhlley lama or god or a goldfish if they believed simply that everyone should live their life the best they can, and then rest.

Which after all is probably the truth because religion is only a concept created to make humans less scared of the cycle of life.

[-PLAGUE-]

Should I make a Political/Religious Poetry Topic or?

[-PLAGUE-]

I copied and pasted mine form a lyrics website.
Btw thats a good song.

Yeah I figured, wanna know though if major did, because I'm simply too lazy to be bothered to google it.

[Major]

I copied and pasted mine form a lyrics website.
Btw thats a good song.

Yeah I figured, wanna know though if major did, because I'm simply too lazy to be bothered to google it.

No I did not write that. I did however feel it was relevant to the discussion.

It's a Bad religion song.

[MadAce]

Saying religion is bad is like saying a chair is bad.

[Major]

http://www.badreligion.com/

"Bad Religion" is the band's name.

...but yes, all chairs are in fact evil.

just ask the moon

[MadAce]

http://www.badreligion.com/

"Bad Religion" is the band's name.

That I fully realize.

[General_Neox]

MadAce has been makin' me laugh since 05, i love this kid lol.

and to be honest guys his oppinion should probably carry the most weight in the entire community considering hes been here since the beggining of time and long before most of you.

[MadAce]

MadAce has been makin' me laugh since 05, i love this kid lol.

and to be honest guys his oppinion should probably carry the most weight in the entire community considering hes been here since the beggining of time and long before most of you.

Appeal to age? What a boring fallacy. I expected better from you.

My arguments should generally carry the most weight because they're the most well thought out.