P5 debates

[JesusRocks765]

The evidence of the Great Flood is all over, the Tower of babel is where our languages began to separate, and the fact that you dont have proof of the Universes origins either, leads me to believe in Creation. You can do nothing to change me, I hope I can change you though

[JuliusCaesar]

I can't offer compelling proof for the big bang because I am not an astrophycisist, go ask one.

And no there is no evidence for a great flood or a tower of babel, I asked for some and you just said it was real and offered no proof.

And just because the answer to something is unknown does not mean a delusional carpenter's father-god is responsible for anything.

[JesusRocks765]

The tower of babel is not standing today Because God scattered the people away from it.

The fact that it is not there shows that the Project was abandoned, and had God not intervened, we would all speak the same language and that would be the World capital. We also would not have much diversity so Im glad he did it to stop 1 world government

Your insulting of Jesus is childish and Dangerous, I hope you know that.

[JuliusCaesar]

I ASKED FOR PROOF. You said that the tower of babel was real and it proves your religion, because it was once there, but then god destroyed it. OK THEN.

In that case, let me share my beliefs. 65 million years ago there was a race of hyper intelligent beetles who ruled the earth. But shortly after they built their first space elevator, Cthulhu and his legion of the Old Ones burst forth from the heavens, and unleashed nuclear fire across the land. Thus the beetles were destroyed (as were the dinosuars, SO MORE PROOF), and the Old Ones paved the way for the rise of man.

THIS PROVES MY RELIGION IS TRUE! Because something is not there, this automatically means there must have been something there some diety destroyed. Yep. Perfectly valid logic.

My disregard for your dieties and prophets is because they are not real. There is no proof, no examples, nothing but a dusty old book that uses itself for validation, and a bunch of sheep. It would not be dangerous in any sense for me to talk a big steaming dump on a picture of the virgin mary, or do anything else sacriligious because there is no power behind it.

However your blatant disregard for logic or any kind of reason is incredibly dangerous. The fact that there are thousands more of backwards, illogical, delusional, and in any scientific sense--- retarded, individuals such as yourself, is deeply deeply troubling. If someone such as yourself was put in a position of power, who knows what crazy sh*t might happen. A new holocaust, dark age, nuclear war against all non-believers, who f*cking knows.

Edit: Craziness isn't limited to christian fundamentalists. And on the ten year anniversary of the WTC attacks it is especially poignant, and important, we see the dangers such ignorance can breed.

[JesusRocks765]

Never compare honerable Christians to terrorists, we do not kill people in the name of religion as thay do.

[JesusRocks765]

Never compare honerable Christians to terrorists, we do not kill people in the name of religion as thay do.

[JuliusCaesar]

Oh yes you do.

[JesusRocks765]

Your so out of arguments that you make up a Lie about me.

This discussion is over.




I WIN

[nine-breaker]

Never compare honerable Christians to terrorists, we do not kill people in the name of religion as thay do.

20th Century Church Atrocities

*
Catholic extermination camps
Surpisingly few know that Nazi extermination camps in World War II were by no means the only ones in Europe at the time. In the years 1942-1943 also in Croatia existed numerous extermination camps, run by Catholic Ustasha under their dictator Ante Paveli, a practising Catholic and regular visitor to the then pope. There were even concentration camps exclusively for children!

In these camps - the most notorious was Jasenovac, headed by a Franciscan friar - orthodox-Christian serbians (and a substantial number of Jews) were murdered. Like the Nazis the Catholic Ustasha burned their victims in kilns, alive (the Nazis were decent enough to have their victims gassed first). But most of the victims were simply stabbed, slain or shot to death, the number of them being estimated between 300,000 and 600,000, in a rather tiny country. Many of the killers were Franciscan friars. The atrocities were appalling enough to induce bystanders of the Nazi "Sicherheitsdient der SS", watching, to complain about them to Hitler (who did not listen). The pope knew about these events and did nothing to prevent them. [MV]
*
Catholic terror in Vietnam
In 1954 Vietnamese freedom fighters - the Viet Minh - had finally defeated the French colonial government in North Vietnam, which by then had been supported by U.S. funds amounting to more than $2 billion. Although the victorious assured religious freedom to all (most non-buddhist Vietnamese were Catholics), due to huge anticommunist propaganda campaigns many Catholics fled to the South. With the help of Catholic lobbies in Washington and Cardinal Spellman, the Vatican's spokesman in U.S. politics, who later on would call the U.S. forces in Vietnam "Soldiers of Christ", a scheme was concocted to prevent democratic elections which could have brought the communist Viet Minh to power in the South as well, and the fanatic Catholic Ngo Dinh Diem was made president of South Vietnam. [MW16ff]

Diem saw to it that U.S. aid, food, technical and general assistance was given to Catholics alone, Buddhist individuals and villages were ignored or had to pay for the food aids which were given to Catholics for free. The only religious denomination to be supported was Roman Catholicism.

The Vietnamese McCarthyism turned even more vicious than its American counterpart. By 1956 Diem promulgated a presidential order which read:
*
o
"Individuals considered dangerous to the national defense and common security may be confined by executive order, to a concentration camp."

Supposedly to fight communism, thousands of buddhist protesters and monks were imprisoned in "detention camps." Out of protest dozens of buddhist teachers - male and female - and monks poured gasoline over themselves and burned themselves. (Note that Buddhists burned themselves: in comparison Christians tend to burn others). Meanwhile some of the prison camps, which in the meantime were filled with Protestant and even Catholic protesters as well, had turned into no-nonsense death camps. It is estimated that during this period of terror (1955-1960) at least 24,000 were wounded - mostly in street riots - 80,000 people were executed, 275,000 had been detained or tortured, and about 500,000 were sent to concentration or detention camps. [MW76-89].

To support this kind of government in the next decade thousands of American GI's lost their life....

*
Rwanda Massacres
In 1994 in the small african country of Rwanda in just a few months several hundred thousand civilians were butchered, apparently a conflict of the Hutu and Tutsi ethnic groups.

For quite some time I heard only rumours about Catholic clergy actively involved in the 1994 Rwanda massacres. Odd denials of involvement were printed in Catholic church journals, before even anybody had openly accused members of the church.

Then, 10/10/96, in the newscast of S2 Aktuell, Germany - a station not at all critical to Christianity - the following was stated:

"Anglican as well as Catholic priests and nuns are suspect of having actively participated in murders. Especially the conduct of a certain Catholic priest has been occupying the public mind in Rwanda's capital Kigali for months. He was minister of the church of the Holy Family and allegedly murdered Tutsis in the most brutal manner. He is reported to have accompanied marauding Hutu militia with a gun in his cowl. In fact there has been a bloody slaughter of Tutsis seeking shelter in his parish. Even two years after the massacres many Catholics refuse to set foot on the threshold of their church, because to them the participation of a certain part of the clergy in the slaughter is well established. There is almost no church in Rwanda that has not seen refugees - women, children, old - being brutally butchered facing the crucifix.

According to eyewitnesses clergymen gave away hiding Tutsis and turned them over to the machetes of the Hutu militia.

In connection with these events again and again two Benedictine nuns are mentioned, both of whom have fled into a Belgian monastery in the meantime to avoid prosecution. According to survivors one of them called the Hutu killers and led them to several thousand people who had sought shelter in her monastery. By force the doomed were driven out of the churchyard and were murdered in the presence of the nun right in front of the gate. The other one is also reported to have directly cooperated with the murderers of the Hutu militia. In her case again witnesses report that she watched the slaughtering of people in cold blood and without showing response. She is even accused of having procured some petrol used by the killers to set on fire and burn their victims alive..." [S2]

As can be seen from these events, to Christianity the Dark Ages never come to an end....

the full website is here http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm

[-nox-]

Your so out of arguments that you make up a Lie about me.

This discussion is over.




I WIN

can't win a discussion you didn't take part in.

meanwhile, i asked a question in a previous post. Care to answer it?

[LordSturm]

Never compare honerable Christians to terrorists, we do not kill people in the name of religion as thay do.

I'm pretty sure you just got done saying you wish gays were exterminated through any means possible. That sounds really Christian to me. The bible teaches to "love thy neighbor" if your neighbor was gay what would you do? Remember it does not say " love thy neighbor as long as he shares your woefully close-minded and hateful beliefs".

Also declaring yourself the winner of a debate does not make you the winner. All you've done this entire time is say "I'm right because the bible says it's true". If one is debating the validity of a source, one does not then go and use everything that source says as proof it's right ( which is how stupid little militant Christians like yourself) get stuck in your circular logic pattern to start with. You keep saying you have proof that the great flood happened. And this magic tower existed but there is no evidence to support that.

As for all different languages early humans were all isolated and developed INDIVIDUAL cultures and languages because each group came up with their own method.a 5 year old can cone up with that pretty easily.

[JuliusCaesar]

Your so out of arguments that you make up a Lie about me.

This discussion is over.




I WIN

Haven't lied yet bro!


Edit:

you're*

And I'm out of arguments? All you can do is rattle off bible-related I love puppies. You offer no proof and no cohesive arguments. You contradict yourself every other post, deny fact and logic, and when you don't get your way you rattle off some ad hominem attacks or change the subject. The fact you declare yourself a winner after making a complete donkey out of yourself and getting nowhere is equally hilarious. Sounds like I win, no, wait, Cthulhu inspired me to win ^-^ (credit to you guys too check, nine, mel, etc)

[JesusRocks765]

There is science to back up the Bible

go on

you are just rejecting it as I am rejecting your unexplained science that desperately tries to disprove the Bible.

what specific social and historic events would need to occur and/or what specific scientific evidence would need to be found for you to give up your beliefs?

Nothing could ever make me give up my Beliefs.

Never compare honerable Christians to terrorists, we do not kill people in the name of religion as thay do.

20th Century Church Atrocities

*
Catholic extermination camps
Surpisingly few know that Nazi extermination camps in World War II were by no means the only ones in Europe at the time. In the years 1942-1943 also in Croatia existed numerous extermination camps, run by Catholic Ustasha under their dictator Ante Paveli, a practising Catholic and regular visitor to the then pope. There were even concentration camps exclusively for children!

In these camps - the most notorious was Jasenovac, headed by a Franciscan friar - orthodox-Christian serbians (and a substantial number of Jews) were murdered. Like the Nazis the Catholic Ustasha burned their victims in kilns, alive (the Nazis were decent enough to have their victims gassed first). But most of the victims were simply stabbed, slain or shot to death, the number of them being estimated between 300,000 and 600,000, in a rather tiny country. Many of the killers were Franciscan friars. The atrocities were appalling enough to induce bystanders of the Nazi "Sicherheitsdient der SS", watching, to complain about them to Hitler (who did not listen). The pope knew about these events and did nothing to prevent them. [MV]
*
Catholic terror in Vietnam
In 1954 Vietnamese freedom fighters - the Viet Minh - had finally defeated the French colonial government in North Vietnam, which by then had been supported by U.S. funds amounting to more than $2 billion. Although the victorious assured religious freedom to all (most non-buddhist Vietnamese were Catholics), due to huge anticommunist propaganda campaigns many Catholics fled to the South. With the help of Catholic lobbies in Washington and Cardinal Spellman, the Vatican's spokesman in U.S. politics, who later on would call the U.S. forces in Vietnam "Soldiers of Christ", a scheme was concocted to prevent democratic elections which could have brought the communist Viet Minh to power in the South as well, and the fanatic Catholic Ngo Dinh Diem was made president of South Vietnam. [MW16ff]

Diem saw to it that U.S. aid, food, technical and general assistance was given to Catholics alone, Buddhist individuals and villages were ignored or had to pay for the food aids which were given to Catholics for free. The only religious denomination to be supported was Roman Catholicism.

The Vietnamese McCarthyism turned even more vicious than its American counterpart. By 1956 Diem promulgated a presidential order which read:
*
o
"Individuals considered dangerous to the national defense and common security may be confined by executive order, to a concentration camp."

Supposedly to fight communism, thousands of buddhist protesters and monks were imprisoned in "detention camps." Out of protest dozens of buddhist teachers - male and female - and monks poured gasoline over themselves and burned themselves. (Note that Buddhists burned themselves: in comparison Christians tend to burn others). Meanwhile some of the prison camps, which in the meantime were filled with Protestant and even Catholic protesters as well, had turned into no-nonsense death camps. It is estimated that during this period of terror (1955-1960) at least 24,000 were wounded - mostly in street riots - 80,000 people were executed, 275,000 had been detained or tortured, and about 500,000 were sent to concentration or detention camps. [MW76-89].

To support this kind of government in the next decade thousands of American GI's lost their life....

*
Rwanda Massacres
In 1994 in the small african country of Rwanda in just a few months several hundred thousand civilians were butchered, apparently a conflict of the Hutu and Tutsi ethnic groups.

For quite some time I heard only rumours about Catholic clergy actively involved in the 1994 Rwanda massacres. Odd denials of involvement were printed in Catholic church journals, before even anybody had openly accused members of the church.

Then, 10/10/96, in the newscast of S2 Aktuell, Germany - a station not at all critical to Christianity - the following was stated:

"Anglican as well as Catholic priests and nuns are suspect of having actively participated in murders. Especially the conduct of a certain Catholic priest has been occupying the public mind in Rwanda's capital Kigali for months. He was minister of the church of the Holy Family and allegedly murdered Tutsis in the most brutal manner. He is reported to have accompanied marauding Hutu militia with a gun in his cowl. In fact there has been a bloody slaughter of Tutsis seeking shelter in his parish. Even two years after the massacres many Catholics refuse to set foot on the threshold of their church, because to them the participation of a certain part of the clergy in the slaughter is well established. There is almost no church in Rwanda that has not seen refugees - women, children, old - being brutally butchered facing the crucifix.

According to eyewitnesses clergymen gave away hiding Tutsis and turned them over to the machetes of the Hutu militia.

In connection with these events again and again two Benedictine nuns are mentioned, both of whom have fled into a Belgian monastery in the meantime to avoid prosecution. According to survivors one of them called the Hutu killers and led them to several thousand people who had sought shelter in her monastery. By force the doomed were driven out of the churchyard and were murdered in the presence of the nun right in front of the gate. The other one is also reported to have directly cooperated with the murderers of the Hutu militia. In her case again witnesses report that she watched the slaughtering of people in cold blood and without showing response. She is even accused of having procured some petrol used by the killers to set on fire and burn their victims alive..." [S2]

As can be seen from these events, to Christianity the Dark Ages never come to an end....

the full website is here http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm

Never compare honerable Christians to terrorists, we do not kill people in the name of religion as thay do.

I'm pretty sure you just got done saying you wish gays were exterminated through any means possible. That sounds really Christian to me. The bible teaches to "love thy neighbor" if your neighbor was gay what would you do? Remember it does not say " love thy neighbor as long as he shares your woefully close-minded and hateful beliefs".

Also declaring yourself the winner of a debate does not make you the winner. All you've done this entire time is say "I'm right because the bible says it's true". If one is debating the validity of a source, one does not then go and use everything that source says as proof it's right ( which is how stupid little militant Christians like yourself) get stuck in your circular logic pattern to start with. You keep saying you have proof that the great flood happened. And this magic tower existed but there is no evidence to support that.

As for all different languages early humans were all isolated and developed INDIVIDUAL cultures and languages because each group came up with their own method.a 5 year old can cone up with that pretty easily.

Lord.Sturm, you cant believe if you ignore all the evidence I present; if you do not want to be Christian, your not going to be one.

Your so out of arguments that you make up a Lie about me.

This discussion is over.




I WIN

Haven't lied yet bro!


Edit:

you're*

And I'm out of arguments? All you can do is rattle off bible-related I love puppies. You offer no proof and no cohesive arguments. You contradict yourself every other post, deny fact and logic, and when you don't get your way you rattle off some ad hominem attacks or change the subject. The fact you declare yourself a winner after making a complete donkey out of yourself and getting nowhere is equally hilarious. Sounds like I win, no, wait, Cthulhu inspired me to win ^-^ (credit to you guys too check, nine, mel, etc)

I dont see why you think I am making a fool of myself, I am arguing over 4 people alone and am not giving up. I am defending my Faith and going to Heaven for this.

I am seeking new converts but the trollish population of SGE doesnt make it easy Winning this argument is entirely a point of view, I am winning to me as you

believe you are to yourselves, but I dont give up and It's fun really, to argue against so many people and try to convince them

There is no need for Hostility, do not Hate me for arguing my point and I wont hate you for arguing yours. We are mature people and I believe we can have a civil

argument without turning it into a flame war.

[JuliusCaesar]

No, you offer no evidence at all, only scripture.

While yes winning a debate is subjective, only to a small degree. As of yet you have literally made 0 conclusive points.

You expressly ARE making a fool of yourself for being a huge intolerant hypocrite.

And finally, I don't hate anyone involved in this. You are the one comparing me to strange internet pictures and going off shouting I WIN I WIN because apparantly you didn't like something I said.

[JesusRocks765]

No, you offer no evidence at all, only scripture.

While yes winning a debate is subjective, only to a small degree. As of yet you have literally made 0 conclusive points.

You expressly ARE making a fool of yourself for being a huge intolerant hypocrite.

And finally, I don't hate anyone involved in this. You are the one comparing me to strange internet pictures and going off shouting I WIN I WIN because apparantly you didn't like something I said.

'
Im goint to Heaven for this.
You are slightly raising your self esteem and sacrificing your soul in the Process, It's not worth it!

[JuliusCaesar]

You're going to die. Then you will be in a hole. No plugging your ears and singing happy songs will change this. You gain more self-esteem from your blissful ignorance and believing you will live forever, I don't have the luxury of wearing jesus-colored glasses or believing i have an invisible evanescent indestructable part of myself. And believe me I find little challenge in watching you trip over yourself. If i wanted to prove myself I'd go sky diving or something.

[-nox-]

Nothing could ever make me give up my Beliefs.

In which case your beliefs are pointless.


I suppose this might need some explanation:

let's say that with regards to a specific race of four horses I think horse 2 is the best (Y = bSpeed x bEndurance etc.) horse. This belief would lead me to predict:

horse 2 will win.

the possible events that can take place to show me that this prediction is wrong are:

horse 1 wins, horse 3 wins or horse 4 wins.

The fact that there 3 potential cases in which I would be wrong allows me to test my theory. If horse 2 wins I know I was right (this is a simplistic example, of course winning one race doesn't determine what horse is best, but I hope you get the idea), if horse 2 loses I know I was wrong. No matter what the result, I will have learned something.

I could also have predicted:

any of the horses will win the race.

This statement cannot possible be wrong (assuming the race will take place etc., again, a simplistic example). There are no possible events in which this statement is incorrect. But what does this statement predict and what does it teach me? Nothing at all.

(For a bit more practical examples within a scientific / philosophical debate:

Marx believed that people are inherently interested in improving the world and finding out the truth. He, obviously, believed that communism would improve the world and that it was true. Therefore Marx predicted that people would come to agree with communism. He, however, realised that people could be guided by their egocentric reasons and that this could lead to people resisting the "truths" of communism. As such Marx predicted that some people would, for their own selfish reasons, refuse to belief in communism. With this knowledge a communist could walk up to a non-communist and try to convince that person. If the person agreed to the ideas of communism, the communist would conclude that Marx was right. If the person did not agree with the ideas of communism, the communist would conclude that Marx was right. This same reasoning is often used by Christians when trying to convert people. They stated that there is evil in the world and that this must be taken away with the "truth" of the bible. If a person is not converted, it shows there is evil in the world, if the person is converted it shows the "truth" of the bible. Of course you now know this to be a false prediction.

Freud said that paranoia was a sign of suppressed homoerotic feelings. If the patients agreed with this diagnosis Freud would say "see! I knew you had homoerotic feelings." If the patients disagreed with the diagnosis he would say "see! I knew you were suppressing your homoerotic feelings!"


Without the chance of failure, there is no success. If your belief is that nothing could (theoretically) happen to show that your belief is false, than I would advise you to disregard your beliefs for they are inherently pointless.

[MadAce]

Without the chance of failure, there is no success. If your belief is that nothing could (theoretically) happen to show that your belief is false, than I would advise you to disregard your beliefs for they are inherently pointless.

Why? I'm not trying to be smart or anything. I'm genuinely wondering.

IMHO it's not because I can not possibly be swayed from my beliefs that they are pointless to hold.

[-nox-]

Without the chance of failure, there is no success. If your belief is that nothing could (theoretically) happen to show that your belief is false, than I would advise you to disregard your beliefs for they are inherently pointless.

Why? I'm not trying to be smart or anything. I'm genuinely wondering.

IMHO it's not because I can not possibly be swayed from my beliefs that they are pointless to hold.

You're quite right. They are only pointless to hold if ment to predict things.

If any belief makes you happy, no matter how false that belief is(not suggesting Christianity is a false belief), there is a point to holding it.

The belief however should not be used as argumentation for any intellectual debate.

my bad.

[Major]

Without the chance of failure, there is no success. If your belief is that nothing could (theoretically) happen to show that your belief is false, than I would advise you to disregard your beliefs for they are inherently pointless.

Why? I'm not trying to be smart or anything. I'm genuinely wondering.

IMHO it's not because I can not possibly be swayed from my beliefs that they are pointless to hold.

You're quite right. They are only pointless to hold if ment to predict things.

If any belief makes you happy, no matter how false that belief is(not suggesting Christianity is a false belief), there is a point to holding it.

The belief however should not be used as argumentation for any intellectual debate.

my bad.

...and I was just about to send my children to Dutch schools.

[-nox-]

Basically, I tried a new , simpler way to explain this point that I've made previously....and I made a mistake in my explanation.

Still, lesson learned. Which is a better reason to say "i win" than any named before.

[MadAce]

Why? I'm not trying to be smart or anything. I'm genuinely wondering.

IMHO it's not because I can not possibly be swayed from my beliefs that they are pointless to hold.

You're quite right. They are only pointless to hold if ment to predict things.

If any belief makes you happy, no matter how false that belief is(not suggesting Christianity is a false belief), there is a point to holding it.

The belief however should not be used as argumentation for any intellectual debate.

my bad.

...and I was just about to send my children to Dutch schools.

Shocking isn't it? Nox said something that, if one would employ very strict scrutiny, could resemble a generalization.

What a fool!

Send your kids to Belgian schools.

[JesusRocks765]

Let me explain my Faith to you nox.

I KNOW there is a God.

I KNOW Jesus will save me.

I KNOW Jesus was sent to save our souls, perform miracles, and spread his Holy teachings.

This is how my Faith works, Don't ask me to explain it, you either have it or dont and of you dont then you dont understand it either.

[JuliusCaesar]

Let me explain my Faith to you nox.

I KNOW there is a God.

I KNOW Jesus will save me.

I KNOW Jesus was sent to save our souls, perform miracles, and spread his Holy teachings.

This is how my Faith works, Don't ask me to explain it, you either have it or dont and of you dont then you dont understand it either.

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."
-Benjamin Franklin

You understand only that which agrees with your born-into way of life.

You turn a blind eye to any other ideas which contradict your very narrow world view.

You know quite literally nothing other than what you were told to believe. It isn't a matter of faith. It's brainwashing, pure and simple.

[-nox-]

Let me explain my Faith to you nox.

I KNOW there is a God.

I KNOW Jesus will save me.

I KNOW Jesus was sent to save our souls, perform miracles, and spread his Holy teachings.

This is how my Faith works, Don't ask me to explain it, you either have it or dont and of you dont then you dont understand it either.

If you belief your faith to be knowledge you neither know of knowledge nor faith.

[LordSturm]

I am all up for examining EVIDENCE presented by you jesusrocks. the problem is you have yet to produce any. All i have heard from you thusfar is your opinion, hardly anything I care to hear about.

one does not need something to understand it. I am perfectly able to understand exactly how faith works for your certain warped belief of the christian religion without myself having the same beliefs. In fact I would imagine when it comes to faith, the person who has it, understands it less than one who doesnt (when it's exremeism like you have). The reason being I can objectively view how it has destroyed your life, alienated you from the people here and others you will meet in the future, and made you wish to exterminate groups of people you disagree with.


If faith means I am required me to want to commit genocide, and turns me into a factory for bigotry and hatred towards fellow humans, well then I think im better off without it.


Also its really difficult to have a "debate" with you if you just ignore every question we ask that makes you uncomfortable, change the topic completely and insult everyone here that doesnt believe what you do.

you still havent answered this question Jesus says to "love thy neighbor" and not to judge others, So what would you do if your neighbor was gay or lesbian?

[MadAce]

Let me explain my Faith to you nox.

I KNOW there is a God.

I KNOW Jesus will save me.

I KNOW Jesus was sent to save our souls, perform miracles, and spread his Holy teachings.

This is how my Faith works, Don't ask me to explain it, you either have it or dont and of you dont then you dont understand it either.

Sure.

It's just the way in which you do it should really receive some scrutiny from your part.

[JesusRocks765]

Who is brainwashing you to think the Catholic Church is evil?

How can you call my Catholic Views narrow minded?

You want facts, heres plenty:

The Catholic Church is The Largest Charity in the World

The Catholic Church is very against abortion and stem cell research (anything that kills babies)

The Catholic Church Has numerous Missions in Africa, so any time you ask "Why isnt God helping the Kids in Africa?" You are wrong; God's Teachings have led to Catholic
Missions and Charities feeding and educating the poor and Sick.

The Catholic Church was Started by Jesus, no wonder it is so Great!

The Catholic Church opposes wars and Violence and supports freedom.

The Catholic Church Is the Oldest and Largest Denomination of Christianity.




By following the Catholic Church, I am Happy, One of Billions of Fellow Catholics, and am Going to Heaven.

If you want no part of Heaven then you will get no part of it.

Have a nice day

[Mel'Kaven]

I am a Strong Creationist, basically it comes down to this: Did God Create life or did it just appear out of nowhere (Your not answering your opinion of how Life started nine) and I choose the more Believable and Faith-Backed Creation story. I do not know if God created life on other worlds, I guess we will have to build Better Space Ships and explore the Amazing universe God made for us! My proof is your lack or any logical proof and the fact that there are to many unexplained things to not include God in it. I await your responses for this civil Religious argument (this one is not turning into a flame war so mature People only please)

Hopefully this information will help you in your quest of ignorance.

Dear JesusRocks,

There is no possible way we can prove God did not create the universe, just as we cannot prove that Hogwarts doesn't exist; but its how the entire philosophy of God is portrayed that even suggests to us that it is possible God could have created the universe, just as the conditions for the possibility for a Hogwarts existing are present. Why the comparison? It is quite simple actually. For one to even think Hogwarts exist is simply rudimentary wrong, right? Why is God so different? He is a character based off the imagination of the people at the time. You have to think in the time of then - back, long ago. People created their deities to explain things they could not comprehend or justify. Poseidon, controlling the movement of the seas - when we all know that is controlled by gyres which circulate the water due to heat from the suns radiation and the occasional high gravity from the moon; and so he is then just a fragment of our imagination. Why is God not the same? It is simple. He has 'done' something that cannot be dis-proven. He has physically created the universe.

Now, let me begin. I will establish some factors we both agree to be correct:

• Science is filled with Theorems and Truths that can be mathematically proven; Philosophy is filled with Postulates but cannot be mathematically proven.
  -Truths or Laws are proven by factual evidence derived from/by math and observations and are accepted as truth.
  -Theorems are just below Truths, in that they have been proven to happen at a very, very common ratio. Or they are nearly fact by mathematical evidence and/or observation but there is still a possibility that it can be false.
  -Postulates suggest something is Truth by reasoning and/or logic, although they are not entirely truth all of the time

Simply, these could be substituted by the question of 'How' and 'Why', respectively.

One common argument against it is that for there to be a creator, someone must have created the creator; infinitum paradox. This is a quantitative way to disprove the existence of God, thus we will assign it the value of 'How'. The common response to this is: "God is infinite." Which, by definition, does exactly say what was purposed to disprove the existence of God... But I am assume what they must be saying is: "God is persistent." Which is possible but cannot be proven by the current confines of science as there have not been nor will there ever be observations of the universe's inception, and thus it remains a mystery and will never be factual. So, to simplify - the existence of God cannot be disproved, there is just no reason to believe it in the first place. There is nothing logical about there being something 'not physical', as God is purposed. That's like saying "Oh yeah, that is Fe(Iron). Oh yeah, but its not in existence nor does it have physical form; it effects no matter; it has no composition."

• For Instance:
  Lets say you have a pet. Most pets don't bite the hand that feeds them, right? It makes sense. But why not? Why do they act under a sense of morality without the possible knowledge of God? The answer is simple: They see it is best and most efficient to survive if they do not anger their owners as it is them that feeds them and controls their lives. Humans are very similar. Naturally, humans would kill for survival and inherit the brutality of man but as Natural Selection slowly made us more and more capable of intelligence we have found it more efficient to survive working together, hence the first tribes were born. And then, of course, humans began to maximize efficiency then - Nations were born around the ideals to keep everyone above the need to drop below an established 'Moral Conduct' and be forced to the brutality of survival. Pets are still brutal in nature, we just have simply raised them to understand they do not have to be attempting to survive if they are regularly fed - and that is the extent of their mental capacity. They have no opinion of a God nor will they ever. But essentially, we are the 'Gods' of ourselves as we are creating the illusion that a supremely right omniscient being established a moral code.

However, philosophically, people have postulated over the idea that the entire realm of the universe was created by intelligence as it is very complex and exact; of course, this could just be unique to our universe as if there were previously existing ones that did not randomly fall into the exact specifications of a life bearing universe, we would never know and thus the information is irrelevant. Not to mention the extreme quantities of space could deeply effect any sort of 'mean'. Life is simply an occurring of a great many variables that are perfectly aligned. They are outlying of the equation and, like gravity, you are simply a sum of an array of perfectly occurring events:

Nebula of gases and solids condense -> Heavy spots of arbitrarily positioned matter form planets and Sol -> One of the 'planet' heavy spots contains the essential gases and compounds needed to form life -> The heavy spot just so happens to be at the perfect distance in relation to the star to keep water at a liquid state -> In the perfect medium of water, organic molecules are formed from heat(geothermal and lightning) and recants of set molecular chemistry -> Prokaryotes are formed arbitrarily out of sludge of perfectly positioned organic matter(Amino Acids, Nucleotides, etc.) -> Natural Selection slowly groups life together to form basic Eukaryotes -> Multicellular beings are formed due to the efficiency of being larger and able to produce more energy - > Mass photosynthesis changes atmospheric composition -> First predators are formed as it is another efficient way to gain energy -> Land is now suitable for life -> Creatures evolve onto land from oceans -> Creatures adapt to their specific environment -> Natural Selection, they grow more and more efficient in living -> Weaker strength creatures must rely on intelligence to overcome the horrors of survival -> Humans, a weak species as compared to the others, slowly evolves in their brains rather than their muscle -> Humans learn more efficient ways to live more pleasurably -> Humans establish moral code among themselves to make life less of a burden -> Humans maximize performance in nearly all possible aspects of life -> Present.

• For instance:
  There are only 605 planets currently known, and only .001% host life... The milky way is approximately 100,000 light years large. That translates to 587,862,537,318,360,800 or 5.8 x 10^17 Miles, in diameter. Imagine the Area in Miles: 2,714,197,530,318,320,000 And that's only on a 2 dimensional array - entirely dismissing the Volume(third dimension) this incredible space this would fill. Such instances of life or intelligence would be VERY, VERY, VERY low. In fact, so low that that species might even assume they are the only species in existence and there must be some significance to that, but once again, it is just a coincidence that we formed the way we did, where we did. You have to understand the scale of it all to formulate a proper opinion. There are simply so many instances that life could occur but it is spread on such a largely infinite medium that it seems very scheduled and planned, but its not. Our star is just another spec of a spec of a spec of a spec of a spec of a spec of a spec of a spec of a spec of a spec of a spec of a spec of a spec of a spec of a spec of a spec of a spec of a larger spec we call the universe.

And please, silence yourself with your constant jabber about you 'KNOWING' about the existence of God. If it were proven by means of factual evidence then you would be allowed to say you know, although it is not proven - at all, so seriously stop saying that.

The only reason for one to believe in God is to philosophize that there is something larger than life - and there isn't. There is no reason to believe it, there is no logical purpose to accept it as it cannot be proven. Do you believe in things before they are proven? Just because I know that the periodic table of the elements consists of letters that apply to each atomic value doesn't mean I will simply believe that there is an atom called "Yu" because I like the way "Yu" looks.

• -The Communist, Mel'Kaven.

[JuliusCaesar]

Who is brainwashing you to think the Catholic Church is evil?
No one, i made my own judgements. When i was younger I was given a couple books, one on catholicism (my dad's faith) and one on the eastern orthodox church (my mother's heritage, yet she doesn't believe it, and no we haven't talked about it). I read each, and found them to be full of nonsense. Oh, and I never said the catholic church was evil. You can be delusional all you like, just don't shove it down mine, or anyone else's throats.
How can you call my Catholic Views narrow minded?
YOU are right. YOUR way of life is right. Everyone else is wrong, sinning, and if they don't apoligize for not living the way you think it should be, they will go to hell. Basically all you have told us so far.

You want facts, heres plenty:

The Catholic Church is The Largest Charity in the World
I don't know about that, If you have a source I'd like to see it.
The Catholic Church is very against abortion and stem cell research (anything that kills babies)
Stem cell research doesn't necessitate dead babies anymore. And as for abortion, that is a woman's choice. Your specific christian morals should have no bearing on what a woman of a different, or even the same belief system does.
The Catholic Church Has numerous Missions in Africa, so any time you ask "Why isnt God helping the Kids in Africa?" You are wrong; God's Teachings have led to Catholic
Missions and Charities feeding and educating the poor and Sick.
Great. I think its great that people can try to help and do their part. But for every person actually doing hands-on relief work, there are dozens more "praying" that help is done, and taking credit rom the people actually helping, and giving it to their imaginary friend. Also, there are plenty of ways the catholic church is in the way of progess, and has hampered human rights over the years, we have listed them already in like 3 different threads. Plus, there are plenty of non-denominational charities doing work as well. Being helpful isn't STRICTLY a catholic trait. Even the motives of catholic relief work is dubious, to be quite frank. It isnt like they are expanding their follower base in doing so. And I have always been taught that character is what you do when no one is looking, no one guiding oneself. I don't have someone looking over me constantly making me do the right things, but apparantly you need someone there.
The Catholic Church was Started by Jesus, no wonder it is so Great!
If i wanted to worship carpenters i'd become a builder.
The Catholic Church opposes wars and Violence and supports freedom.
Not really. The catholic church was a dominant political and military force until they were defeated in a military conflict in the middle ages.
The Catholic Church Is the Oldest and Largest Denomination of Christianity.
The greek pantheon, judaism, egyptian pantheon, and countless more religions are older, many older religions are still in practice today as well.



By following the Catholic Church, I am Happy, One of Billions of Fellow Catholics, and am Going to Heaven.
There aren't "billions" or catholics. In anycase that is a logical fallacy. Just because many people believe it doesn't mean it is true. We all thought the earth was the center of the universe once, still think that? To be fair, it took the church a few centuries to reconsider that "fact."
If you want no part of Heaven then you will get no part of it.
If i wanted to believe in an idea of heaven, I'd be a muslim. 72 virgins ftw.
Have a nice day
I have.