Death Penalty

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nine-breaker
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Re: Death Penalty

Post by nine-breaker » Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:33 am

nine-breaker wrote:The person that dies should lose 33% of their exp and 25% of their cash. The murderer should gain 25% of their exp, and 25% of their cash. Plain and simple.

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by McGrod » Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:49 am

removed.
Last edited by McGrod on Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Major
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Re: Death Penalty

Post by Major » Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:10 pm

-nox- wrote:
nine-breaker wrote: Well, you see, America is a very violent country,
nine-breaker wrote: These ppl don't deserve to live any way, so we just kill'em.
now, what's wrong with that?

nope, looks fine to me
ouch, lol.

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by Wagon » Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:23 pm

lolninebreakerufunny NOT

cool story, bro

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ArdRhys4
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Re: Death Penalty

Post by ArdRhys4 » Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:37 pm

Can't we build some sort of "chamber" to put a crapload of em' in and get it over with quickly? (Lets see how many people get the joke)

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by nine-breaker » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:06 am

ArdRhys4 wrote:Can't we build some sort of "chamber" to put a crapload of em' in and get it over with quickly? (Lets see how many people get the joke)
If your referring to the holocaust i would have to say, that criminals deserve it, innocent men, women, and children, who have never done anything wrong except be jewish, don't.

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by ArdRhys4 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:50 am

Yes, I was referring to that xD. Actually, for criminals, I think that MIGHT actually apply. Maybe make it a little more humane and make sure that it is not used on innocent people (too much, it will happen, but try to keep it to a minimum) and it would be a pretty okay idea.

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by MadAce » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:00 am

nine-breaker wrote:
who have never done anything wrong except be jewish, don't.
You just said being Jewish is doing something wrong.

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by nine-breaker » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:08 am

MadAce wrote:
nine-breaker wrote:
who have never done anything wrong except be jewish, don't.
You just said being Jewish is doing something wrong.
So I did... oops :oops:

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CrazyChef
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Re: Death Penalty

Post by CrazyChef » Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:45 pm

I'm thinking this thread needs the death penalty

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by ArdRhys4 » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:38 am

I literally rolled on the floor laughing at the post by MadAce about Nine saying that being jewish is wrong xD.

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by M2-Destroyer » Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:12 pm

lol

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by Camaril » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:06 am

nine-breaker wrote:
nine-breaker wrote:The person that dies should lose 33% of their exp and 25% of their cash. The murderer should gain 25% of their exp, and 25% of their cash. Plain and simple.
/agree

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by SnakeEyes » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:12 pm

Moleman wrote:Last week a 33yr old man in the UK was sentenced to life in prison for the kidnap, rape and murder of a girl he 'met' on face-book after posing as a teenage boy. He committed this offence a matter of months after being released from prison after serving time for a previous sexual assault.

This man in my opinion has relinquished any right to, not only be a member of society but also be a member of the human race.

In our modern, hand-wringing, PR conscious, liberal, enlightened age even suggesting that this mans crimes are worthy of death would cause gasps of outrage and disapproval however, I would be interested to hear someone arguing that this man deserves to live, something he denied the poor innocent victim he brutally raped and murdered.

Is 2010 society a better one compared with a couple of generations ago when harsher punishments were meeted out to criminals?
What's to say that this guy might have bad friends who set him up a couple of times. Not saying that happened, just saying that someone's guilt can NEVER be guaranteed 100%. That said, incorporating the DP WILL cost the lives of innocents. Even if it is just one out of every million convicted, the state would be killing an innocent. That alone should be enough reason to be against the death penalty. If it is not, I would think it just if one of you would be one of those innocents.

This man should be put in prison for the rest of his life. That would remove him from society, give the family closure and be cheaper than the DP would.
GRAWRG. wrote:as far as accidently killing an innocent man goes, that sucks. but i think that has little to do with the DP, and more to do with faulty evidence and/or stupid jurers. true, he'd be alive and able to continue his life if he'd gotten a life sentence.. but he'd still have lost numerous years in prison. not to mention sentences are decided AFTER the persons guilt. the problem there is with the guilty/not guilty, not with the sentence.
Even after years in prison, he would still be alive and be able to continue his life. The death sentence is irreversible. The fact that justice is done by humans, and humans are fallible, means you can never rule out the conviction of an innocent. As said before, enough reason to be against the dp.
theres a bigger picture too.. prisons are overcrowded.. so despite the tree-hugging opposition, id be in favor of the DP as an equivalent to.. a life sentence, or a life sentence without parole.. something like that. especially if/when it comes down to killing cold-hearted killers/rapists, or letting lesser criminals out prematurely and possibly having innocent lives lost because of it.
Prisons being overcrowded can be solved in other ways as well. How about the legalisation of certain kinds of drugs. Better care for those at the bottom of our socety. Education. There's a lot of factors to be taken in consideration when you want your prisons to be less crowded. There might be something wrong with your legal system..


In short
  • The Death Penalty does not serve as a deterrant
  • The Death Penalty costs more than Life imprisonment
  • The Death Penalty is irreversible, so innocents will get killed
  • Life imprisonment removes people from society as well
  • Why would the state be allowed to take a life
The only argument left in favor of the DP is revenge. Revenge is barbaric and does not belong in a civilized society. As Ghandi once said: "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by MadAce » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:11 pm

SnakeEyes wrote:
In short
  • The Death Penalty does not serve as a deterrant
  • The Death Penalty costs more than Life imprisonment
  • The Death Penalty is irreversible, so innocents will get killed
  • Life imprisonment removes people from society as well
  • Why would the state be allowed to take a life
The only argument left in favor of the DP is revenge. Revenge is barbaric and does not belong in a civilized society. As Ghandi once said: "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".
M-M-M-M-M-Monster KILLLLL!!!!!!

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by SnakeEyes » Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:46 pm

Dave34 wrote:
SnakeEyes wrote:In short
The Death Penalty does not serve as a deterrant It used be a deterrent but it isn't anymore due to liberalism
Please elaborate. I would love to see your arguments to back up this claim.
The Death Penalty costs more than Life imprisonment True that is a draw back.
The Death Penalty is irreversible, so innocents will get killed Not my problem.
It will be when you're the innocent one. I sure hope nobody would ever have to be convicted as an innocent, but it would be ironic if you would be one of them.
Life imprisonment removes people from society as well So does death penalty
This is no argument pro death penalty.
Why would the state be allowed to take a life They already take everything else.

The only argument left in favor of the DP is revenge. Revenge is barbaric and does not belong in a civilized society. As Ghandi once said: "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" And what is wrong with revenge? Its barbaric? so? your life has to end sometime we all die.

I've read every post in this topic. And all i've seen in good argumentation and factual data has been from the no-DP side. I would love to see some good argumentation pro-DP, so please people... try harder.

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by devilwolf » Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:39 pm

snake, found a decent article by a prof., the link is http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... ticle.html it explains better than i can how i feel about the DP.

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by MadAce » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:50 pm

Dave34 wrote:Pro DP side doesn't have proof or statements, because it is our opinions, we can voice them without anything to back them up or anything, this isn't a debate. If I want to send a criminal to the "barbaric slaughter house" then I will.
Of course those opinions aren't rational. DP side wants revenge to become institutional. They're so much down the evolutionary ladder I'm afraid to piss them off as they're liable to fling $hit at me.

Oh, and one day the US will be a nation with no capital punishment but with marijuana legalized, abortion unquestioned and euthanasia a guaranteed right. :D
Dave34 wrote: Sending criminals to an ultra-violent hell hold called prison will get them killed too, so whats the point, either way they will die, but looking at it now, I'd rather have them put in prison where they could get raped or killed or w/e. You know that their is a large number of prison gangs in the United States. Your right, getting the death penalty is too good for them we'll just let them be tortured by fellow inmates for the rest of their lives. Prison is just as barbaric as the Death Penalty.
If you have no idea how to run prisons, sure, then they're barbaric. But in real countries (like Norway) prisons are geared towards rehabilitation. Result: a lot less crime per capita than the US.
devilwolf wrote:snake, found a decent article by a prof., the link is http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... ticle.html it explains better than i can how i feel about the DP.
Do you even know who Ernest van den Haag was? He was a conservative prick called blacks intellectually inferior. A hugging racist which makes him stupid by definition.

Tho he does make a few good points against the death penalty.

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by Camaril » Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:56 pm

MadAce wrote:
Dave34 wrote:Pro DP side doesn't have proof or statements, because it is our opinions, we can voice them without anything to back them up or anything, this isn't a debate. If I want to send a criminal to the "barbaric slaughter house" then I will.
Of course those opinions aren't rational. DP side wants revenge to become institutional. They're so much down the evolutionary ladder I'm afraid to piss them off as they're liable to fling $hit at me.

Oh, and one day the US will be a nation with no capital punishment but with marijuana legalized, abortion unquestioned and euthanasia a guaranteed right. :D
Dave34 wrote: Sending criminals to an ultra-violent hell hold called prison will get them killed too, so whats the point, either way they will die, but looking at it now, I'd rather have them put in prison where they could get raped or killed or w/e. You know that their is a large number of prison gangs in the United States. Your right, getting the death penalty is too good for them we'll just let them be tortured by fellow inmates for the rest of their lives. Prison is just as barbaric as the Death Penalty.
If you have no idea how to run prisons, sure, then they're barbaric. But in real countries (like Norway) prisons are geared towards rehabilitation. Result: a lot less crime per capita than the US.
devilwolf wrote:snake, found a decent article by a prof., the link is http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... ticle.html it explains better than i can how i feel about the DP.
Do you even know who Ernest van den Haag was? He was a conservative prick called blacks intellectually inferior. A hugging racist which makes him stupid by definition.

Tho he does make a few good points against the death penalty.
why do i care about the youth in asia?

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by MadAce » Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:17 pm

Dave34 wrote:This statement has no relevance to this topic.
The truth is always relevant.
Dave34 wrote: OK we'll let you be the proud warden of a prison with thousands of inmates whom are members of prison gangs, they are ultra-violent offenders and they are thirsty for blood, please tell me how you'd keep the prison non-violent.
I have no idea (well, I do, but that's not the point) how the experts do it, but they do it nonetheless. Tho apparently not in the US for some reason.
Dave34 wrote: No relevance
It's relevant who wrote the article and what kind of person he was. In this particular case: stupid.

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by -nox- » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:12 am

simply google his name/read his wikipedia page. He doesn't seem to be a racist in the direct sense of "I hate all black people" kind of way, but he certainly made distinctions based on race.

That said, I read the article until he suggested that the death penalty works as a deterrant or might work as a deterrant (can't remember, it's early and I read it last night). That's clearly not true as I've pointed out in an earlier post.

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by SiN » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:33 am

Somehow I tend to see these boil down into a lot of veiled comments that gear towards one form of government over another. TBH the social atmosphere of the U.S. needs to change before anything crime related will change (imo). But, I don't see that any time soon.

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by Moleman » Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:38 am

SiN wrote:Somehow I tend to see these boil down into a lot of veiled comments that gear towards one form of government over another. TBH the social atmosphere of the U.S. needs to change before anything crime related will change (imo). But, I don't see that any time soon.

The discussion is on the concept of whether the death penalty as the ultimate form of punishment is acceptable or not, government type is irrelevant.

What does the 'social atmosphere' of the US mean and why must it change before crime can change?

I'm not trying to be awkward, just have no idea what you're trying to say here.

moleman

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by MadAce » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:13 am

Dave34 wrote: How are any of your statements true? Elaborate.
Which statement would you like me to elaborate on and how?
Dave34 wrote: 1. Explain please because you avoided this point plainly.
2. What is the U.S. doing wrong? Pleas explain that too.
1. I'm not avoiding anything. Anyways, I'm too lazy to look up crime rates and compare ebwteen Norway and the U.S. but if you care that much you should look them up. I'll save you some time and tell you that Norwegian crime rates are a lot lower per capita.
2. You yourself hinted on the large number of prison gangs in the U.S. I think you're us as knowledgeable if not more about the problems of the U.S. prison system.
Dave34 wrote: Racism is stupid, but I read that article I didn't see racism in it, but by all means stick to your narrow minded opinion of that "I'm right everyone else is wrong AND they can't have a different opinion than me."
The guy was a certified racist. So I don't trust his opinions on any social issue. Oh, and you can have a different opinion from me. But yours is more wrong than mine is. (duh)

Dave34 wrote: My Opinion is capital offense's should result in capital punishment, I don't care if its barbaric thats your problem.
Your opinion is wrong.

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by nine-breaker » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:22 am

MadAce wrote:
Dave34 wrote: How are any of your statements true? Elaborate.
Which statement would you like me to elaborate on and how?
Dave34 wrote: 1. Explain please because you avoided this point plainly.
2. What is the U.S. doing wrong? Pleas explain that too.
1. I'm not avoiding anything. Anyways, I'm too lazy to look up crime rates and compare ebwteen Norway and the U.S. but if you care that much you should look them up. I'll save you some time and tell you that Norwegian crime rates are a lot lower per capita.
2. You yourself hinted on the large number of prison gangs in the U.S. I think you're us as knowledgeable if not more about the problems of the U.S. prison system.
Dave34 wrote: Racism is stupid, but I read that article I didn't see racism in it, but by all means stick to your narrow minded opinion of that "I'm right everyone else is wrong AND they can't have a different opinion than me."
The guy was a certified racist. So I don't trust his opinions on any social issue. Oh, and you can have a different opinion from me. But yours is more wrong than mine is. (duh)

Dave34 wrote: My Opinion is capital offense's should result in capital punishment, I don't care if its barbaric thats your problem.
Your opinion is wrong.
Madace... your parents didnt spank you enough as a child, your a spoiled fuckin brat.

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by -nox- » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:31 am

..or not

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by Moleman » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:08 pm

MadAce wrote:Your opinion is wrong.
Stop fishing Madace, you're better than that! You know that by definition someones opinion on a subjective argument cannot be 'wrong'!!

Its an emotive subject and its because there are no absolute rights or wrongs we can have this debate, if the facts were clear cut then there would be no need for anyone's 'opinion'.

I've already stated in this thread that IMO there are some crimes, so inhuman, shocking and horrific that the perpetrator no longer has any right to be a member of the human race!

Did Saddam Hussein's torture and brutal murder of hundreds of thousands of Kurds (amongst his many other crimes) justify his death?

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MadAce
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Re: Death Penalty

Post by MadAce » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:15 pm

Moleman wrote:
MadAce wrote:Your opinion is wrong.
Stop fishing Madace, you're better than that! You know that by definition someones opinion on a subjective argument cannot be 'wrong'!!

Its an emotive subject and its because there are no absolute rights or wrongs we can have this debate, if the facts were clear cut then there would be no need for anyone's 'opinion'.

I've already stated in this thread that IMO there are some crimes, so inhuman, shocking and horrific that the perpetrator no longer has any right to be a member of the human race!

Did Saddam Hussein's torture and brutal murder of hundreds of thousands of Kurds (amongst his many other crimes) justify his death?
It's time for mankind to grow up. Doing so will require us to realize that people aren't holy because they happen to hold an opinion. There are matters out there, such as life and death, that warrant opinions to be held under scrutiny. After all, their opinions are what people consult when they vote.

So in the interest of the human race we are forced to say "No, you're wrong. Your view on the situation is wrong. Your opinion has nothing to do with reality."

And since everything is quantifiable (especially in a political context) this is possible too. The reason why there are still opposing opinions is not because the facts aren't clear, because they most certainly are, but because it's complete and utter taboo to challenge a person's right to be listened to. This is one of the greatest yokes on our current incarnation of human civilization.

BTW, no matter what anyone does, they can not be killed. Murder is illegal, no matter who or what perpetrates it. Period.

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by SnakeEyes » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:16 pm

Moleman wrote:
MadAce wrote:Your opinion is wrong.
Stop fishing Madace, you're better than that! You know that by definition someones opinion on a subjective argument cannot be 'wrong'!!

Its an emotive subject and its because there are no absolute rights or wrongs we can have this debate, if the facts were clear cut then there would be no need for anyone's 'opinion'.

I've already stated in this thread that IMO there are some crimes, so inhuman, shocking and horrific that the perpetrator no longer has any right to be a member of the human race!

Did Saddam Hussein's torture and brutal murder of hundreds of thousands of Kurds (amongst his many other crimes) justify his death?
Opinions are indeed personal and cannot be debated. However, the subject of this topic CAN be debated, and that's what people usually do on forums instead of just venting opinions. I've seen a lot of arguments against the Death Penalty but none in favor of the death penalty. I have only read part of the article posted earlier so I still have to do some more research into that one, but I would prefer a debate on arguments and facts above biased opinions.

There are some crimes, so inhuman, shocking and horrific that the perpetrator should be removed from the society. 'No longer has any right to be a member of the human race' is an opinion that we don't share.

And no, I don't think ANYONE's crimes justify anyone's death. Some crimes do justify the removal of the perpetrator from society entirely for the rest of his life, but never should anyone have the right to take someone else his life (My opinion), especially the government.

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by Moleman » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:35 pm

I live in the UK which has become over the years an increasingly liberal country, both politically and socially. I'm not suggesting that the death penalty will ever return here, it won't!

However in my opinion there are people who commit certain crimes that I think forfeit their right to live, I admit that as the father of a young child my opinion is an emotional one but there are people in prison who have abducted, raped and murdered children... They don't deserve to live, I don't care if it's politically incorrect or morally wrong it's MY opinion and by defination cannot be wrong!

It may be wrong by your standards but that's a matter for you!

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