Death Penalty

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MuTAnT
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Re: Death Penalty

Post by MuTAnT » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:24 am

Andrew Ryan, the last person to be hanged in Australia was found innocent after his death. I can't agree with capital punishment.

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BardockSGE
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Re: Death Penalty

Post by BardockSGE » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:33 am

If I were convicted, I rather be killed than rott my donkey away in a prison some place.

I some times believe the death penalty is appropriate.

Lets say a crazed dude goes around breaking babies over his knee cap.

Kill that motha fudga. Don't care. You kill a kid, die and go straight to hell you dirty illegitimate child.

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omlow
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Re: Death Penalty

Post by omlow » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:42 am

BardockSGE wrote:If I were convicted, I rather be killed than rott my donkey away in a prison some place.
BardockSGE wrote:You kill a kid, die and go straight to hell you dirty illegitimate child
if your kid gets killed, would you rather the murderer die? or spend the rest of his/her life in a prison cell getting bum raped daily?

i don't personally know because i've never been in the situation, but these are the questions you must ask yourself.

i'm sure the prisoner would rather be killed than rott his/her donkey away in prison too, and i'm sure the parents of said kid would rather the more severe punishment. what is more severe? a life full of pain and misery(prison)?or no life at all(death)?

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by BardockSGE » Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:53 am

omlow wrote:
BardockSGE wrote:If I were convicted, I rather be killed than rott my donkey away in a prison some place.
BardockSGE wrote:You kill a kid, die and go straight to hell you dirty illegitimate child
if your kid gets killed, would you rather the murderer die? or spend the rest of his/her life in a prison cell getting bum raped daily?

i don't personally know because i've never been in the situation, but these are the questions you must ask yourself.

i'm sure the prisoner would rather be killed than rott his/her donkey away in prison too, and i'm sure the parents of said kid would rather the more severe punishment. what is more severe? a life full of pain and misery(prison)?or no life at all(death)?
I rather him be dead, cause knowing my child's murder was still alive would drive me to wanna like, i dunno, find a way to stab his eyes out and then I'd end up in trouble myself.

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omlow
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Re: Death Penalty

Post by omlow » Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:02 am

at any rate it's a very subjective topic with no definite answer.

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Major
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Re: Death Penalty

Post by Major » Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:20 am

...waiting for the pro-life/pro-death-penalty argument followed by Godwin's Law than Schrodinger's cat.

than an epic battle of how the weather in Minnesota is mild compared to that of the arctic.

...also on-topic, bring back the pound of flesh days. save taxpayers a fortune and you'll have skinnier slaves to build roads.

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by tekkamanblade » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:07 pm

i think they should build a "prison" in antartica and every year ship in (actually air drop) 100k or so "death row" and "lifer" inmates with enough supplies to last 10k or so people for 1 year. you wouldn't need to guard it, but it might be televised so that would be criminals could see how much the consequences sucked and reconsider. if someone miraculousy managed to swim out of antartica, the orders would be to shoot on sight.

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gamanche
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Re: Death Penalty

Post by gamanche » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:51 pm

bring them to a canadian jail, like in trailer park boys, where they can smoke weed, drink beer and play road hockey, lawls!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5SHF40rW3c

1:50-3:10 lawls!

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devilwolf
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Re: Death Penalty

Post by devilwolf » Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:49 pm

tekkamanblade wrote:i think they should build a "prison" in antartica and every year ship in (actually air drop) 100k or so "death row" and "lifer" inmates with enough supplies to last 10k or so people for 1 year. you wouldn't need to guard it, but it might be televised so that would be criminals could see how much the consequences sucked and reconsider. if someone miraculousy managed to swim out of antartica, the orders would be to shoot on sight.
hmmm, might be interesting to watch. 8)

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ArdRhys4
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Re: Death Penalty

Post by ArdRhys4 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:14 am

devilwolf wrote:
tekkamanblade wrote:i think they should build a "prison" in antartica and every year ship in (actually air drop) 100k or so "death row" and "lifer" inmates with enough supplies to last 10k or so people for 1 year. you wouldn't need to guard it, but it might be televised so that would be criminals could see how much the consequences sucked and reconsider. if someone miraculousy managed to swim out of antartica, the orders would be to shoot on sight.
hmmm, might be interesting to watch. 8)
I would watch that show every day XD.

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SpaceToast
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Re: Death Penalty

Post by SpaceToast » Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:52 am

only rapist and child molesters and murderers should get the death penalty.

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MadAce
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Re: Death Penalty

Post by MadAce » Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:18 pm

The death penalty is counter-productive, barbaric and immoral.

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omlow
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Re: Death Penalty

Post by omlow » Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:38 pm

MadAce wrote:The death penalty is counter-productive, barbaric and immoral.
so is killing children.

aren't we a bit evolved "eye for an eye" justice?

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-nox-
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Re: Death Penalty

Post by -nox- » Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:42 pm

MadAce wrote:The death penalty is counter-productive, barbaric and immoral.

from aronson, wilkinson & akert, 2007:

A majority of Americans support the death penalty for murder, in part because they believe that it acts as a detterent. There is no more severe penalty than death, of course, and if the death penalty prevents even a few murders, it might be worthwhile - or so the argument goes. To see if this argument is correct, a number of studies have compared the murder rates in American states that have the death penalty with those that do not, compared the murder rates in American states before and after they adopted the death penalty, and compared the murder rates in other countries before and after they adopted the death penalty. The results are unambiguous: There is no evidence that the death penalty prevents murders (Archer & Gartner, 1984; Bedau, 1997; Ellsworth & Mauro, 1998; Sorensen, Wrinkle, Brewer, & Marquart, 1999). (...) We refer to a few studies that have found that executions are followed not by a decrease but an increase in murders (Archer & Gartner, 1984; Bailey & Peterson, 1997; Sakamoto, Sekiguchi, & Shinkyu, 2003). (...) [It could be] that observing the govermet put someone to death lowers other people's inhibitions, making them more likely to commit murders[.] Though the data are not conclusive, this argument makes social psychological sense- and there is some evidence to support it (Bailey & Peterson, 1997)
very well reasoned, sir! Not at all one of those lame, absolutistic assumptions with no factual data to back it up. Bravo!

(I can find more about this if you want, but typing all this is dull...)

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nine-breaker
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Re: Death Penalty

Post by nine-breaker » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:28 pm

The person that dies should lose 33% of their exp and 25% of their cash. The murderer should gain 25% of their exp, and 25% of their cash. Plain and simple.

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MadAce
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Re: Death Penalty

Post by MadAce » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:03 pm

-nox- wrote:
MadAce wrote:The death penalty is counter-productive, barbaric and immoral.

from aronson, wilkinson & akert, 2007:

A majority of Americans support the death penalty for murder, in part because they believe that it acts as a detterent. There is no more severe penalty than death, of course, and if the death penalty prevents even a few murders, it might be worthwhile - or so the argument goes. To see if this argument is correct, a number of studies have compared the murder rates in American states that have the death penalty with those that do not, compared the murder rates in American states before and after they adopted the death penalty, and compared the murder rates in other countries before and after they adopted the death penalty. The results are unambiguous: There is no evidence that the death penalty prevents murders (Archer & Gartner, 1984; Bedau, 1997; Ellsworth & Mauro, 1998; Sorensen, Wrinkle, Brewer, & Marquart, 1999). (...) We refer to a few studies that have found that executions are followed not by a decrease but an increase in murders (Archer & Gartner, 1984; Bailey & Peterson, 1997; Sakamoto, Sekiguchi, & Shinkyu, 2003). (...) [It could be] that observing the govermet put someone to death lowers other people's inhibitions, making them more likely to commit murders[.] Though the data are not conclusive, this argument makes social psychological sense- and there is some evidence to support it (Bailey & Peterson, 1997)
very well reasoned, sir! Not at all one of those lame, absolutistic assumptions with no factual data to back it up. Bravo!

(I can find more about this if you want, but typing all this is dull...)
Don't be an donkey. :lol: I'm capapble of backing up my statements, but in this case they're pretty self-explanatory IMHO.

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by Moleman » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:51 pm

MadAce wrote:in this case they're pretty self-explanatory IMHO.
IMHO there are acts of depravity and inhumanity which take away ones right not only to be a member of society but also a member of the human race!

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by MadAce » Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:08 pm

Moleman wrote:
MadAce wrote:in this case they're pretty self-explanatory IMHO.
IMHO there are acts of depravity and inhumanity which take away ones right not only to be a member of society but also a member of the human race!
IMHO executing the act of killing isn't allowed under no circumstances whatsoever. And having it be done by the faceless anonimity that is the state and the government does not absolve the people. On the contrary.

So it really doesn't matter whether or not someone is a member of the human race or not. No one is allowed to kill them in my book.

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by McGrod » Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:41 pm

removed.
Last edited by McGrod on Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by -nox- » Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:14 pm

MadAce wrote:IMHO executing the act of killing isn't allowed under no circumstances whatsoever. And having it be done by the faceless anonimity that is the state and the government does not absolve the people. On the contrary.

So it really doesn't matter whether or not someone is a member of the human race or not. No one is allowed to kill them in my book.
i was mostly pointing out the 'counter-productive'. "barbaric" and "immoral" are opinions that don't need/can't have any real factual grounds.

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MadAce
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Re: Death Penalty

Post by MadAce » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:52 pm

Dave34 wrote:Bring back public hangings. Convict people faster, and kill them faster. Everyone is to big of a I love you man! to understand that some people on this planet don't deserve to live, these people are our murders and criminals, murder should be dealt with by taking the murder's life. People against the death penalty are soft and don't understand the "dark side" of life...
It'll sound contradictory, but it's precisely because I know the dark side of life that I understand how criminals, even murderers, are mostly no different from you and I. Look at yourself, how you would readily take a person's life in the name of vengeance with nothing but the thing veil of mob-rule (the government) between you and your responsibility.

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by Lazerus » Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:08 pm

I like the prison idea better. But not in the antarctic, but the arctic, a little closer.
Sure the instant gratification of knowing the guy is dead is good, but knowing the criminal is freezing in sub-zero weather, with no food, and oh;
no sun light for 6 months. I would be able to live comfortably with that.
For live t.v. on it... The movie 'death race' I believe it is called.
What should be a national law is california's 3 strikes law. 3 strikes your locked up for life.
Mind you it would be a pretty big jail, how many ppl are locked up in the usa anyway?

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MadAce
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Re: Death Penalty

Post by MadAce » Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:43 pm

Dave34 wrote:I don't care about the morality other than providing closure to the victims family and friends. Criminals don't deserve to live, crime is intollerable, prison is too good for some (if not most) criminals. This country needs stronger and faster justice for everyone.
How is adding another victim to the list of victims providing closure to the family and friends? Revenge is only destructive and serves no actual goal other than to shallowly alleviate a sense of powerlessness among the victims.

And I don't see how you'd force people to uphold laws that are broken by society itself.

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by MadAce » Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:50 pm

Lazerus wrote: Mind you it would be a pretty big jail, how many ppl are locked up in the usa anyway?
To answer your question:

Image

According to the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS): "In 2008, over 7.3 million people were on probation, in jail or prison, or on parole at year-end — 3.2% of all U.S. adult residents or 1 in every 31 adults."

The United States has the highest documented incarceration rate in the world. The U.S. incarceration rate on December 31, 2008 was 754 inmates per 100,000 U.S. residents. The USA also has the highest total documented prison and jail population in the world.

2,304,115 were incarcerated in U.S. prisons and jails in 2008.



Now, is the US a safer society than countries which go easier on criminals? Not at all.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_m ... per-capita

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_g ... s-firearms

The US is consistently one of the worst performing of all industrialized countries, despite its immense, humongous incarceration rate. And despite the US still having the death penalty.


Pretty darn interesting. Man steels packet of cheese. SPends 7 years in jail.

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by Lazerus » Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:33 am

Rather interesting article "Man steal cheese goes to jail.
But also cash strapped state can't afford to lock ppl up for price tag it holds.
So I guess it comes down to a society that is and will always be morally corrupt one way or another, whether it be criminals, or to the crooks in the govt itself. Or the thieves that created the recession we are starting to come out of.
Really the death penalty would not deter anyone, nor any other punishment, from stopping the spread of criminalistic activites in this world.
We are bred on it, and in my mind, is this society has lost precpective on the true meaning of what a nation is supposed to be.
I think that communsim was the way to go. Eye for an eye. And all for the community.
Pretty hard to steal from yourself, or yet kill someone that provides a basic neccesity to your life.

Here in the 'civilized' western world, the only thing that really exsists is self-centeredness, and greed.
Take California for example; What is it world renowned for? Hollywood. So why aren't all these millionaire actors and such not doin the humanitarian things like they preach and help thier own community?
Even where I live there was a tradgedy. One guy ambushed and killed four cops. The Goverment went as far as erecting a memorial for the fallen cops. A national monument for all cops lost in the line of fire. It was 5 yrs ago this happened. The opinion of the locals?
they believe this monument is a waste of money and a disgrace to the community lol.
Yes, I agree the whole system is flawed anywhere, cause every crime still happens no matter what the punishment is.
The only punishment that will ever happen, is us honest ppl gettin bilked out of our hard earned money, to give fair and swift justice.
And oddly enough, from what I understand it cost more to send a person to the death chair, cause it rarely happens.

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MadAce
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Re: Death Penalty

Post by MadAce » Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:48 am

Dave34 wrote:
MadAce wrote:How is adding another victim to the list of victims providing closure to the family and friends? Revenge is only destructive and serves no actual goal other than to shallowly alleviate a sense of powerlessness among the victims.
How are they the victim? They chose to comit the crime, I feel no pitty for those people, the sooner they die the better.

It depends on the family of the victims, no one is the same, everyone has different view points, but I do think we should publicly execute these disgraces to human kind and show not to be like them. I'd rather them rot 6 feet under ground than rot in the sorry excuse for punishment that prison is.
If you're being killed or robbed from your freedom then you're a victim, right? How is it any different if the government does it?
publicly execute these disgraces to human kind and show not to be like them
How can you not be like "them" when you publicly execute people? Then you're exactly like them, only that in your eyes it's perfectly moral what you're doing, whereas the victim of your public execution might have had moral reservations during his/her act.

Besides, what is punishment intended to achieve? The US's crime rates compares to its incarceration rates prove "punishment" is not productive, where's countries which focus on rehabilitation have a lot lower crime rates.

Couple that with the certainty that sometimes the wrong person WILL be convicted (and in case of capital punishment, murdered), and you have a strong case against harsh punishment.

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by devilwolf » Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:15 am

The US had a death penalty, upheld by our supreme court, and each state has the right to have it as an option for punishment for certain crimes. Whether you agree with it or not, it is the law of the land, and if you dont like it, you can A. move to another country, B. move to a state where it is not a possible sentence, C. start trying to change it as a civilian *i.e. petitions, etc... or D. become a member of the govt. *senator and introduce a law banning it.
Me, personally, I feel that in certain situations it is permissable. And MA, it is not the govt. who gives that punishment, it is a jury of 12 who hear the trial, and after deliberation, hand down the sentence. Also, before it is carried out, there are at least 5 levels of appeals that *most of the guilty use before it is carried out. 8)

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by Lazerus » Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:35 am

i think this is where the criminals found the catch-22 loophol
Capital punishment; we end up being no different than them by killing them. Morally or ethically speaking
And like stated they have 5 appeal processes to go through, which must cost the state alot more than locking them up in the short term.

Or lock them up, which only breeds far worse criminals, and cost taxpayers more in the long run.
So how do you win if your not the criminal?
stoop to thier lvl and kill them?
Or waste money that could go to more constructive means in a society?
Really is a tough call...

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by Lazerus » Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:48 am

For me it's not bout being a wild and crazy guy bout it, its about the morals and principles behind it.
espcially how a jury of 12 decide wether the person gets executed or not. 12 ppl not involved in the crime.
know are these ppl not turning into the criminals themselves by giving permission to kill another, when these 12 have never been affect directly by the crime? That is my biggest hurdle on it.
Princples and self believe in that humanity might actually evolve beyond our past

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Re: Death Penalty

Post by Lazerus » Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:56 am

Sorry for Double post.
Solution. In some islamic states and indo-chinese cultures.
Commit a crime, get an appendage chopped off.
problem solved and great detterent not to commit again

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