CONTEST: Design the new artifact system

Ideas for improving Starport:GE

Moderators: Moleman, Kwijibo, Luna

User avatar
Toonces
Site Admin
Posts: 1613
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 10:23 am
Location: Beta Canum Venaticorum
Contact:

Post by Toonces » Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:09 am

Moses wrote:I think Rojo's idea basically hits the nail on the head...keep it an arcade style game, the artifacts shouldn't make the game more complicated. The beauty of SGE is the simplicity and that shouldn't be messed with too much.
A very wise point. Still, I am liking the idea of having more variety than just 8 artifacts so that the best of them can be even more rare. I also like the lifespan idea.

User avatar
Talak.Winstar
Posts: 2392
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:29 pm
Location: In Space, contemplating how exactly to negate the crappy events of OMD and BND story arcs.

Post by Talak.Winstar » Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:43 pm

KIT wrote:== Lifespan ==
The main problem of making very powerful and very rare artifacts is that no matter how rare artifacts are, given enough time player will find all of the arts he needs of highest levels. And this will make him so much stronger that it would ruin the new-old player balance. Newbies would be in even bigger disadvantage than they are at the moment.
What i suggest is giving every artifact a lifespan. It should be about 30 days (can vary on different servers), so it does not affect rebang gameplay, but helps avoid stagnation and overpowering on perma servers. To make it easier to implement and make less things in player menu, you could give an artifact a chance to break instead of giving it a fixed lifespan. So, to make artifact work for 30 days in average, it should have a 1/720 chance to break per hour. The stronger artifacts should have shorter lifespan, making them very rare items that give a player a temporary but very strong advantage.
Also, lifespan will create a constant artifact demand from top players. This will give newbies a new way of earning money - hunting for artifacts and selling them to top players. Its obvious that for a newbie it would be much better to sell a superior artifact for 10mil, probably making him many time richer than he was, than using it for himself.
The problem which may seem to be with the lifespan is that top players may think of it as of pollution - something that constantly makes problems and makes them have to go artifact hunting every time they lose the art. But, unlike pollutuon, where contractors are only about to be implemented, you always can buy needed artifact from somebody else.
There could be a specal common artifact "nano repair robots", which would help save your artifacts - when one of your artifact breaks, robots immediately repair it, but by doing this exhaust their power and break. Basically, its an "artifacts saver" artifact. You have to waste 1 artifact slot for it, and you never know which of your remaining artifacts breaks first, so it would be useful only for people who have very rare artifacts.
Obviously, the artifact regeneration rates should be way higher than they are currently.These can also vary on different servers.
^<--- First off, its actually a I love you man! to find anyone willing to buy artifacts off you, and I dont think people want to waste their time and space constantly getting repair bots. Not to mention, people tend to IGNORE you when you are not in a position of power or fame... Newbies are almost constantly ignored because the worthless noobs (BBQ heads who leech) harden most the vet's hearts towards newbies. Just make the artifacts balanced so their wont be a need to get nano bots, and for the record, newbies will ALWAYS be at a disadvantage because most of them are too lazy to do anything but beg and leech for money... And its skill that pwns the noobs, not the artifacts. While it is true that some artifacts (like the ig suit) are overpowered, they still only augment skill.... I have killed people with better artifacts than me; artifacts dont make you supreme, good people like zavrith can own dam near with out em...

If you want to empower the noobs, consider this thread that's kinda trying to die :?

http://starportgame.com/sgeforum/viewtopic.php?t=8795
Toonces wrote:
Moses wrote:I think Rojo's idea basically hits the nail on the head...keep it an arcade style game, the artifacts shouldn't make the game more complicated. The beauty of SGE is the simplicity and that shouldn't be messed with too much.
A very wise point. Still, I am liking the idea of having more variety than just 8 artifacts so that the best of them can be even more rare. I also like the lifespan idea.
Toonces I am against the lifespan idea, as a) you probably wont expand it beyond the ability to carry 3. and b) People have JOBS in real life, and I dont think we should spend more time hugging with keeping our artifacts alive.... Artifacts aren't biodegradable, nor should they be.... I am doing good getting any artifact on p5 as it is without this I love puppies.... I agree with the first half, but for crap sakes please reconsider the lifespan crap.... And think of it in terms of an inactive player who has a BBQ pile of work in real life. You find a badass artifact in the game, but your job sends you on a 2 week business trip, by the time you come back, you've lost all the artifacts you've worked hard to get. The lifespan also adds a new concept to token fraud, and other scams, selling people powerful artifacts that are gonna die in 2 minutes... Not that you would give a dam or anything, but honestly, the lifespan thing would be just another pointless advantage to the hard core addicts with no life; this would cause what people you DO have left playing the game, to quit.... However, if you enable us to carry MORE artifacts, and make some sort of convenient means for buying stuff to keep the artifacts alive (still bs), then I would be totally cool with this... Honestly though, in addition to the latter above, artifact lifespan would make the game more complicated than it needs to be.

Unless, you make it to where only the highly potent artifacts get "exhausted", while the weaker ones are able to last indefinitely...

/slap kit for not taking the time to consider those with jobs.
Last edited by Talak.Winstar on Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
milo
Posts: 844
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:58 am
Location: wouldn't you like to know
Contact:

Post by milo » Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:43 pm

so no changing the artifact system to something more complex isnt going to help newbs at all... and it wont be long before every older member finds a system that works for them and may be even more powerful
yea but this will happen no matter what, and with greater variety in the artifacts, the ballance each player finds will likely be different and more fitting to their style of play.

my system is simple. make the arti's we have more specific in their effect, add a few, and allow you to carry more of the slightly less powerful ones.
Moses wrote:
I think Rojo's idea basically hits the nail on the head...keep it an arcade style game, the artifacts shouldn't make the game more complicated. The beauty of SGE is the simplicity and that shouldn't be messed with too much.


A very wise point. Still, I am liking the idea of having more variety than just 8 artifacts so that the best of them can be even more rare. I also like the lifespan idea.
like tallak, i agree that having a set lifespan on the artifacts in a non pax server is a big nerf to the game.(unless you make it like 6months at least) by setting a time limit on them you are taking away a players controll over their own actions. now i understand this is necessasary in some instances(e.g. warp fuel and pollution) but these are already restrictive enough on the way we spend our time. (freedom is fun!)

this is why i proposed that when a player dies they loose one of their six artifacts. (loosing 1 of 3 is too much) this way if a player has to go searching for a new artifact because they lost one it is a result of their own action and they can only hold theirself to blame for the lost time and fuel. this also may dissuade players from doing suiside missions on a col because they know that if they die all they have to do is go 5 hops to sol to get a new ship and try again. planning on dying is not supposed to be part of the game as far as i can tell. (most people who do this are vets who don't care about ex loss, and so atm it is an effective tactic)

duece
Posts: 2117
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:39 am

Post by duece » Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:09 pm

If the lifespan thing is put in, artifacts have to be a lot more common. I spent weeks getting a decent set at the start of p4 and p5, and about 30%-40% of my fuel, so I can't ever go through that every month or so, it would be insane...

if you want arti hunting to me more profitable, then I would need to be able to shout I'm buying artis and have someone respond that day, currently when a good arti is found (on new servers anyway) the demand is insanely high and the supply is too depleted.

KiT
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:51 am
Contact:

Post by KiT » Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:20 pm

Aaaaaarrright, let the lifespan debates continue!
If the lifespan thing is put in, artifacts have to be a lot more common.
Of course they should. The artifact spawn rates should be increased dramatically to feed the constant demand. But yes, when a good arti is found (lvl3 lets say), the demand MUST BE VERY HIGH. Because those are super-rare artifacts dammit, which means they are not supposed to be in every player's inventory. These are for top players who can afford to buy them...or for extremely lucky hunters. Who told you that getting a very strong artifact set should be easy? Currently there are no alternatives - if you want to be fighter, you have to get SCs and IG suits, so the player is pretty much forced to search for them. But with level system, nobody forces you to hunt for only lvl3 sets - you can stay with lvl1's. These would be easy to find and still do some bonuses.
I spent weeks getting a decent set at the start of p4 and p5, and about 30%-40% of my fuel, so I can't ever go through that every month or so, it would be insane...
Isn't it stupid that one of the first things you do is get the best artifact combo? (Or almost the best, with, like, IG suit instead of SC). The artifact levels should rise gradually as the player rises in ranks and gets richer.
Because YES, it is stupid and boring to look for good arts yourself, dismissing the common ones and taking only the best. And newbs wouldn't be dismissing those low-level artifacts - they would save them for themselves, while selling the better ones to richer players.
this is why i proposed that when a player dies they loose one of their six artifacts. (loosing 1 of 3 is too much) this way if a player has to go searching for a new artifact because they lost one it is a result of their own action and they can only hold theirself to blame for the lost time and fuel
This will put active invaders at disadvantage against builders. And since invading is one of the most fun things in SGE, making factors that discourage it isnt a good idea.
a) you probably wont expand it beyond the ability to carry 3
Actually here Talak got the point - if you want players to be more active at trading artifacts, they should have some inactive storage slots (3 i think) where to store found artifacts. The problem here is that it will let players change artifacts without having to dismiss ones they dont use, which i dont think is good.
But, on the other hand, the more artifacts you have, the higher the chance that one will break and you'll ahve to find a new one. The lifespan concept solves it. Maybe the ones in storage should have less chance to break, but i dont think its neccesary.
Artifacts aren't biodegradable, nor should they be
Yes, but every mechanical and electronic device also has a lifespan, and will break at some point. You can easily fix problems with your ship or common devices, but there are no spare parts for artifacts, and you dont know how it works - if the artifact breaks, it cant be repaired.
You find a badass artifact in the game, but your job sends you on a 2 week business trip, by the time you come back, you've lost all the artifacts you've worked hard to get.
It was luck who gave it to you, it was luck who took it. And i have already said, that its not worth hunting for one special uber artifact.
In 2 weeks you lose your colonies due to pollution and invasions, so why is it unfair that you lose artifacts too?
The lifespan also adds a new concept to token fraud, and other scams, selling people powerful artifacts that are gonna die in 2 minutes...
Hehehe, thats why i've suggested probability-based artifact decay. Artifact can break after an hour you got it, or it may work for many years. In average it should be about 1-2 months. The artifact age completely doesnt matter .
the lifespan thing would be just another pointless advantage to the hard core addicts with no life
What's that huge advantage of hardcore players? everyone gets the same amount of fuel, and im pretty sure that even people with jobs have enough spare time to spend it playing on one server.
Unless, you make it to where only the highly potent artifacts get "exhausted", while the weaker ones are able to last indefinitely...
Weaker artifacts should be very common, making them easy to find or buy. Regetting them shouldnt be of much problem.

User avatar
Talak.Winstar
Posts: 2392
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:29 pm
Location: In Space, contemplating how exactly to negate the crappy events of OMD and BND story arcs.

Post by Talak.Winstar » Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:37 pm

Well, the super active people can maintain their artifacts with ease where as the inactive ones cannot.... In any case, I think the only purpose this idea serves is nefing the game, then taking the heat off toonces to direct it at you if it goes really bad...

User avatar
Jwilson6
Posts: 1609
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:27 pm

Post by Jwilson6 » Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:02 pm

Kit you obviously dont much about this game and are even more obviously a hardcore gamer with no real life...

First of all no.. people with a job can barely stay alive on one server as it is. I know for me with school and homework my character wouldhave already died a long time ago if i didnt have corpmates cleaning my pollution and mantaining my colonies for me, which they are only doing because i currently have a lot of them. And your saying that currently you have no alternative but to search for igsuits because they are the most powerful artifacts and that in a level system you could just stay at the lowest levels that makes no sense at all... why would someone who wants the igsuits because they are the highest possible artifacts be content with the lowest artifacts in this new system, no if they needed the highest artifacts in the old system to compete they will need the highest in the next to compete.

and your probability artifact decay is by far the worse idea yet it wouldnt help the lifespan idea at all... and as for losing only 1 of 6 artifacts everytime you die is also hugging retarded... this would discourage deaths so much that their wouldnt be any competition at all... server stagnation would go to an all-time low...
In 2 weeks you lose your colonies due to pollution and invasions, so why is it unfair that you lose artifacts too?
that is yet another retarded statement... first of all noone likes pollution so its not a good idea bringing that up, and invasions are from other players, if you lose your colony then you will have fun taking it back if you choose to, who the hell would have fun searching for artifacts

I could spend all day going through every sentence of your posts bringing up your obvious flaws but i dont have that kind of time... just stop posting your crap ideas in this thread and maybe this patch wont be too bad, atleast

User avatar
Talak.Winstar
Posts: 2392
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:29 pm
Location: In Space, contemplating how exactly to negate the crappy events of OMD and BND story arcs.

Post by Talak.Winstar » Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:59 pm

100% agreed with jwilson, Stop giving bad ideas to toonces to hug up the game more... What you sound like you need to do, is learn some skill... That's the only TRUE motive, aside from trying to propose a nerf to win easy tokens, I see to your even posting this crap on lifespan... I am sorry if this constitutes trashing toonces thread. But please PLEASE don't get toonces to implement this less than assiduous concept...

Elemayo
Posts: 361
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:27 am
Location: Summoning my war chinchilla pirate child amigo

Post by Elemayo » Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:02 pm

I personally don't like the degrading artifacts idea, but I'd like to make a few points should it be implemented.

There shouldn't be a 'time limit' on artifacts. Equipment breaks with use, not with time. If I don't play for 2 weeks, I shouldn't come back with no artis.

I think, that if someone should die, there should be a possibility that an arti can break or be lost in the explosion. Somewhere around 5%. Rather than have the artis have a time limit. Therefore a player can die 20 times before losing a random artifact.

Losing an artifact would be a result of the player's fault.
Wouldn't keep people constantly searching for artis, but they'd have to every now and then.

KiT
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:51 am
Contact:

Post by KiT » Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:46 pm

why would someone who wants the igsuits because they are the highest possible artifacts be content with the lowest artifacts in this new system
Maybe because igsuits arent the best possible artifacts, but are the only possible artifacts? Or you know any other artifacts that augment your dex?
And since good thrusting/turning/speed/regen is what invaders need the most, they need IGsuits. Or SC's which are also rare and have huge demand on them for the same reason.
Now go back to your kindergarten and let adults discuss serious things without having to hear your insults.
A faucet->drain economy is one where you spawn new stuff, let it pool in the "sink" that is the game, and then have a concomitant drain. Players will hate having this drain, but if you do not enforce ongoing expenditures, you will have Monty Haul syndrome, infinite accumulation of wealth, overall rise in the "standard of living" and capabilities of the average player, and thus unbalance in the game design and poor game longevity.
(Source)
In SGE artifacts are not the core economic item, so of course they wont cause such serious catastrophe, but still...

User avatar
rojo
Posts: 950
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:52 pm
Location: At the Black Hand Head Quarters
Contact:

Post by rojo » Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:50 pm

Rojo wrote:
I hate the idea of the losing artifacts, dying artifacts, exploding artifacts or anything else that makes you have to stop doing the fun aspects of the game such as invading and fighting to go spend hours artifact hunting. Personally if temporary artifacts are going to be implemented, I'd just rather see the artifact system taken out of the game. No offense, but I'd rather have a level playing field than having to rebuild my stats every few days in order to stand a chance in a fight. I'm sorry for breaking the more than one post rule but I just had to voice my opinion on bad that idea sounds to me.

Temporary artifacts? Don't make the game more work than it is already.

I just want to re-emphasize how much I hate the idea of temporary artifacts. This is a stupid idea thats going to piss people off. The artifact patch can be well received but anything that makes life harder for the player is going to get a negative reaction from the community (and rightfully so). Please, please, please don't make them temporary, its an awful idea. Changing up their function and abilities and crap is fine, just
Don't make the game more work than it is already
.

:roll:
Last edited by rojo on Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Talak.Winstar
Posts: 2392
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:29 pm
Location: In Space, contemplating how exactly to negate the crappy events of OMD and BND story arcs.

Post by Talak.Winstar » Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:58 pm

First off, jwilson6 has more brains than you, who probably doesnt even have any education whatsoever thnx to dominance by the Russian government. Which disdains the concept of freedom and individual thought. Second, your idea would encourage more people to quit the game because I cant fathom anyone wanting to waste time with this BS... I have said this once, and I will say it again... Virtually all of milo's ideas are balanced, and reasonable. Kit's lifespan idea, again refuses to take into account people with lives or intense school work (hence where most the people of starport quit at). And I agree with rojo's idea... Just that there needs to be a way of convincing toonces not to implement kit's unreasonable idea.

Now I will make this suggestion...


Artifacts should, as elemayo put it realistically, break from use, not age... However, I make this deviation... Artifacts that augment the ship you are in should be destroyed, again similar to another person's idea. However u get to keep the artifacts like IG suit and them as they are equipped on your character's body and he/she cannot die, thus never losing em.

I will also make the notation, that, while increasing the artifact's rate of randomly re-appearing should be increased... This should only really happen if an artifact is lost, and/or more than 10 days has elapsed..

duece
Posts: 2117
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:39 am

Post by duece » Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:44 am

The problem with the way the game is, it it's population distribution... much less than half the game population will need artifact trading for cash, but more than half will be willing to pay cash for them. It will not lead to more interaction, it will amount to just another dimension of boring mindless pve that takes away from pvp. Also it will not amount to an economic sink (like kit is suggesting), but a time sink, very dangerous ground for mmo's.

For the same reason the contractor system won't have a major impact on the game, the supply of workers will never fill the need for them. The long term solution is to condense the population to a smaller space which can be done by abolishing/combining existing servers. Under these conditions, the new artifact system (as well as building and everything else) would flourish... but this has all been said before, and probably won't happen.

As for the artifact limits, I dont really care... I don't have enough time for the game lately as it is, I just check in when I can.. if it demands even more time and I know I'm not gonna attempt to give it, I'll play less (or probably just something else)... The concept is very good, and it will probably make the game more interesting for the people who are able to put in the time for it, who always seem to be around.

Just my 2 cents, I'll probably stick around to see how it all goes.

User avatar
NeatLogs
Posts: 115
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:58 am

Post by NeatLogs » Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:05 am

People, people, just stop arguing and agree that my idea in my 2000+ word post about paying a little to connect an artifact to your ship and have that connection destroyable instead of your artifact is the best one! :D

*ahem* Sorry. The fact is, I really do think that artifacts should be damaged through use. I personally think they are a little like nukes: they can give you a massive advantage, but they should be limited use.

Why don't we go with Elemayo's suggestion and have an artifact "incapacitated" by using it too much? That is, too many jumps with an IG Map would break its connection with the ship. Then fix it by jetting 20 equip or something. And have a "switch it off" button if you don't need that boost. Non-passive artifacts. Yes, by this logic, turning around too much will bust your IG Suit BUT there needs to be a cost for overpowering your ship, apart from warp fuel.
Talak.Winstar wrote:Artifacts that augment the ship you are in should be destroyed, again similar to another person's idea. However u get to keep the artifacts like IG suit and them as they are equipped on your character's body and he/she cannot die, thus never losing em.
Yes! That's my idea! People read parts of my 2000+ page post! Thank you, Talak.Winstar! I will never dismiss your words as trollage from now on. Unfortunately, I think that any artifact with the potential of an IG Suit in the current system shouldn't be a worn artifact.

Now, if everybody would have the patience to read my stuff, you might agree my idea is the best. :o

Edit 1: I don't like the idea of "rare, powerful" artifacts. For example, right now, IG Suits are the rare, powerful artifacts and everybody wants one. Having rare, poweful artifacts just makes veterans complain when newbies have an advantage because they have one, or make newbies complain because now there's no way for them to beat the veteran that has one.

What I think is best for the game is if artifacts simply augment your ship instead of giving bonuses. Unfortuantely, that's a nerf to artifacts, but I don't see how a buff would not make artifacts too prominent and the game less enjoyable.

Edit2:[Negative side effects that get more prominent per level will fix that.
Last edited by NeatLogs on Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:51 am, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
Turkey
Posts: 507
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:28 pm
Location: Rib'zki

Post by Turkey » Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:19 am

I honestly don't think there are enough newbies looking for work to make that worthwhile.

User avatar
cheeser
Posts: 478
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:08 am
Location: Philadelphia

Post by cheeser » Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:57 pm

grrrr all the typing gets my computer slowed down :wink:

anywayz I'ma make mine short and simple, I'm not really good at this but ehhhhh ill give it a shot :D

Normally I would like the classic server, but...:

Some artifacts should have different colors, like when you find one, if they are red *example* they should be ... ig suit or something, and blue for superconductor. Colors represent the different types and level of goodness :)

Thats all I really have other than to increase your artifact holdings so you can hold more than 3, maybe 5 or 6? Plus come out with new artifacts such as artifacts that help your xp per hour, or colony growth in your holdings, etc. etc.?

User avatar
milo
Posts: 844
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:58 am
Location: wouldn't you like to know
Contact:

Post by milo » Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:25 pm

Quote:

this is why i proposed that when a player dies they loose one of their six artifacts. (loosing 1 of 3 is too much) this way if a player has to go searching for a new artifact because they lost one it is a result of their own action and they can only hold theirself to blame for the lost time and fuel

This will put active invaders at disadvantage against builders. And since invading is one of the most fun things in SGE, making factors that discourage it isnt a good idea.
ok so i actually agree that invading is THE funnest thing on sge. right now invaders have a huge advantage over builders and i believe this would just serve to lessen that advantage. there are people that enjoy building their empire from scratch.

i don't like the idea of having to search for a new artifact every time i die but i would accept it as a necessasay evil. i would definately go with the idea of arti's being permanent like they are now before ones that wear out over time, but that's just my oppinion.

we can moan all we want but the final decision will always be toonces(representing the devs)
A very wise point. Still, I am liking the idea of having more variety than just 8 artifacts so that the best of them can be even more rare. I also like the lifespan idea.
and here he seems to favor the lifespans.. oh well :?
I dont want lifespan implemented. Especially not because some stupid hugging illegitimate child can't win without having BBQ nerfed....
calm yourself it's just a game.
Last edited by milo on Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
NeatLogs
Posts: 115
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:58 am

Post by NeatLogs » Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:51 am

I have a feeling that there is going to be a lot of hate in this thread if we don't reach a conclusion over this.

Firstly, we need to get an idea of who's system suggestion is most popular. If an overwhelming majority of people like one particular system, then the rest would simply be smoothing out the details that we don't like. If there's a system somebody likes half of, they should mention it. It'll at least give hints on what the playerbase wants.

Secondly, even though we've done to death what the playerbase DOESN'T want, it'd be good to find a compromise that we'd accept. Because even if everybody agrees that "OMG this sux don't have it!", the feature might be implemented anyway if it's viewed as necessary.

Everybody would be a lot more happy if things they agreed were good were implemented as opposed to if things they agreed were bad weren't. And if there is a rough outline of what's agreeable, the implementation might turn out to be similar.


Alright, I'll go first. Remember, compromises are just that: if this really needs to be implemented in some way, i'd rather the compromise happened.

1. First off, i really do think that the current artifacts are outdated and we need to change them. Milo's idea of percentage increase as opposed to straight attribute increase is something that should be looked at. Something like +10% turning speed instead of +2 dex.

2. Artifact levels, I disapprove of, because then all the lower half of the levels will be ignored. Newbies will not be satisfied with just a level 1 artifact, and the newbie who is satisfied by it likely won't find a trader who keeps one, because they'd be worth so little, it wouldn't be worth the fuel. My compromise on this is: if we have artifact levels, I'd like to see negative side effects. The greater the level, the greater the side effects as well. In addition, I'd like to see negative levels, to take advantage of positive side effects.

3. Artifact degeneration (time limit), I disapprove of. I think this would ultimately nerf the artifact trade. People would just ignore getting artis because they disappear too fast for them, or try to scam sell artis that are greatly degenerated. Even if there's a stat that let's you see how degenerated it is so that you can't get easily scammed, it's going to hurt trading a lot because people will pay less for degenerated artis, and you'll need to constantly hunt for them to keep them "fresh", just so they can be sold. My compromise on this is: artis that get damaged with use. When the arti reaches 100% damage, it doesn't go poof, but simply needs to be fixed for a price. Yes, upkeep is crappy, but disappearance is crappier. We need a better idea for a compromise for this one.

4. Extra slots for "inactive" artis, i disapprove of. What's the point? People will just complain when they have good artis in all active and inactive slots about how the inactive ones are useless even though they have them. My compromise on this is to let us choose how many are active, but to weaken the effects for every one active we go over a certain number. Say, every active arti over 3, arti effectiveness reduces to (195-15*artis over)/(artis over+1)% or something.

5. Arti sets; it's alright. I don't especially like it, but i have nothing against it.

6. NPCs dropping artis is not as good as taxi mission for artis. That said, I wouldn't mind either.

7. Awesome-good-rare artis, this is only a good idea if there is one or two of them and if it disappears on death. I really wouldn't like to see the line "he only won because he had that really awesome arti" every other day on these forums. With all the servers we currently have, at least one unpopular person will get one, and then the threads will burn. Most people don't like artis that disappear on death, but I'd personally allow an exception for intentionally insane-powerful artis.

8. More bartender info. This one's good. Even if the info isn't about artis.

9. NPC trading. I'm undecided on this one. It's not good if it puts a set price to artifacts. It's alright if it's only artifacts that are traded, and not credits for an artifact.

10. Arti type limit: I wouldn't mind if the others were inactive if i had more than one of the same. But I definitely want the potential to have more than one in inventory.

How say you people on these ten suggestions, and have i missed any?

Edit: remember, I'm not just looking for criticism on my own compromises and views on why things are good or bad. I want your own compromises and views.

Carnage
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:59 am

small suggestion for the contest

Post by Carnage » Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:08 am

make them more of a quest, when the bartender gives you a location, you get a random clue as to where the next stop would be to aquire the artifact, in essence make it a series of stops.

Either that or scavenger hunt, "the bartender needs..." you bring that supply he will send you to another port, and so on for an indeterminate amount of runs before one tells you where you can pick one up, or the bartender can actually give you one as trade for good he "needs" (once again after a few supply runs for the other ports/ bartenders)

KiT
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:51 am
Contact:

Post by KiT » Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:00 pm

Alright, the ultimate idea about artifacts!
If it is so boring to hunt for them, why should we have artifacts at all?


Lets give everyone 6 additional stat points and finish with this.
Or, if you say it's too simple (and since when is simplicity bad?), the player can select a number (let's say 6) special treats, every treat has some bonus and some small penalty, you can select level of a treat, from 1 to 3 (you have to pay 3 points of those 6 to get it to lvl3 of course). But with growth of level the penalties grow faster than bonuses. Want to change traits? Pay some tokens. Yeah, i could suggest making person to pay some money or fuel and that would surely be more accepted by more people, but tokens are better.
Was i serious? not really. But tell me how this idea is worse than any perma-artifact idea. Too easy? bu why is it bad? the easier the etter you say. The less time you have to do something else the better you say.
I have a feeling that there is going to be a lot of hate in this thread if we don't reach a conclusion over this

Firstly, we need to get an idea of who's system suggestion is most popular
No, we dont. It's completely up to toonces. It is up to him to decide who's suggestion is most popular and then do as he thinks right.

User avatar
Talak.Winstar
Posts: 2392
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:29 pm
Location: In Space, contemplating how exactly to negate the crappy events of OMD and BND story arcs.

Post by Talak.Winstar » Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:48 pm

KiT wrote:Alright, the ultimate idea about artifacts!
If it is so boring to hunt for them, why should we have artifacts at all?


Lets give everyone 6 additional stat points and finish with this.
Or, if you say it's too simple (and since when is simplicity bad?), the player can select a number (let's say 6) special treats, every treat has some bonus and some small penalty, you can select level of a treat, from 1 to 3 (you have to pay 3 points of those 6 to get it to lvl3 of course). But with growth of level the penalties grow faster than bonuses. Want to change traits? Pay some tokens. Yeah, i could suggest making person to pay some money or fuel and that would surely be more accepted by more people, but tokens are better.
Was i serious? not really. But tell me how this idea is worse than any perma-artifact idea. Too easy? bu why is it bad? the easier the etter you say. The less time you have to do something else the better you say.
I have a feeling that there is going to be a lot of hate in this thread if we don't reach a conclusion over this

Firstly, we need to get an idea of who's system suggestion is most popular
No, we dont. It's completely up to toonces. It is up to him to decide who's suggestion is most popular and then do as he thinks right.
^<--- So in otherwords, you purposefully posted the lifespan of artifacts for only the PURE purpose of nerfing something?!! :evil:


BTW, lets make ruins of power or something...
Last edited by Talak.Winstar on Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KiT
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:51 am
Contact:

Post by KiT » Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:07 pm

I love your manners af argument! It's just completely impossible to prove anything, when all you do is write meaningless insults! Maybe thats because you just have nothing else to say?
Talak.Winstar wrote: Kit's got cols on NH. Is anyone up for some Kit hunting? :twisted:
Haha, if I had tokens, i would bet all of them that you wont be able to cap any single planet on New Hope owned by me in 1 month.

User avatar
Talak.Winstar
Posts: 2392
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:29 pm
Location: In Space, contemplating how exactly to negate the crappy events of OMD and BND story arcs.

Post by Talak.Winstar » Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:38 pm

I can write meaningful content, its just alotta people dont like having artifact lifespans. :)

so here's something meaningful:


No artifact life span... Balance the artifacts so they dont HAVE to have a lifespan to limit it.

secondly, create some exceedingly rare, but potent artifacts of power that were leftbehind by the intergalactics. There should be only 1 of each type of Rune of Power per category per server..

and Finally, if there's gonna be a lifespan to artifacts, it would be better to have no artifacts like rojo said, than having to mess with keeping them alive.. Sorry if that hurts Kit's feelings. Which personally, I dont give a BBQ if I do; the noob shoulda put more thought into the idea instead of being so pretentious as to have to have the game massively nerfed for the sake of getting back at the pros who crush him like a fly. Of which is what the lifespan idea was meant to do.

So here are some more artifacts:

Intergalactic projection crystal: This artifact boosts the strength of your primary (and some of your secondary weapons) by 15%.

Fuel minimizer: When combined with IG maps, you save up to 1.7 gallons of fuel per hop (1 fuel minimizer per character per galaxy)

Psychic Manager Card (:lol:): This artifact greatly assists with haggling resources, and even provides a discount when buying shields (10%). It also allows you to buy more drinks at the LoneStar lounge, and in an even cheaper port fee for the inn. :)

Booster engine: This artifact boosts your ship's maximum speed by 20%.

Tracking system: Enhances all missile's tracking of a target. Also bolsters damage dealt by these missiles.


Edit to milo: Ok then, but can we at LEAST agree that artifact lifespan is a bad idea?
Last edited by Talak.Winstar on Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
milo
Posts: 844
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:58 am
Location: wouldn't you like to know
Contact:

Post by milo » Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:04 pm

all i seem to be hearing lately is arguments over the same things using the same points and it's getting real old. i don't see any new ideas so mabe toonces could close this contest now. i'm also getting a little tired of this kit vs. talak I love puppies. take it to pm's. :evil:

User avatar
Jwilson6
Posts: 1609
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:27 pm

Post by Jwilson6 » Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:05 pm

Meh everyone keeps adding ideas that are in my post... and then giving someone else the credit for them ... BAH!!! comeon if the artifacts get nerfed i atleast one some tokens out if it :wink:

and comeon personally i think my post solved the inactive artifacts slots argument... maybe u people just dont understand what i said :?

as for the artifact lifespan, i dont like it all but i tried to post something that would be acceptable to everyone... and it somewhat solved the levels although i agree it definitely needs tweaking...

and people keep posting new artifacts that are extremely similar to the ones i posted

Ur all cheating :P

atleast i gave recognition to who i copied off of.... I think i did anyway :? ... whatever i only copied the levels idea i think it was peterje who introduced it im not sure...

anyway i just felt like people are skipping over my original idea post or something

Im in a hurry now i may edit this later and add in some qoutes or stuff

btw kit how many tokens would u be willing to bet that talak would never be able to take any of your planets :lol: ... cause i have never seen talak ingame nor have i heard of him ever being any good and i would take that bet assuming u actually do have planets :wink:

KiT
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:51 am
Contact:

Post by KiT » Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:03 pm

Jwilson6 wrote:and i would take that bet assuming u actually do have planets :wink:
Ahh, smarter than talak you are...
I have no idea why he thought i have planets on NH, im not even registered there... maybe someone alse took my name there, but i personally have never been there.
So what ya thinking about "the ultimate idea"? Any flaws in it?

duece
Posts: 2117
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:39 am

Post by duece » Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:54 pm

What i dont like about lifespans is there isn't much you can do to preserve em... but if you have to keep them from being permanent, my preferred order of solutions:
1. milo's lose 1/6 when you die thing. This would throw something in that needs to be there, real incentive to avoid death. As it stands, exp is worthless unless you're really bored or a noob, reshipping isn't a big deal, and fuel isn't so hard to manage. But this would through some real risk into fighting/invade which i guess could be nice...
2. artifacts are worn out with use, but not a set time.
3. artifacts need to be repaired (or whatever it was)
4. baby stabbing
5. eating dog crap
6. unextendable time limits

Having any random factor that can make or break the reward of someone who worked hard for something valuable doesn't do much to improve the game...

But i kinda suspects Toonces will have stopped reading this thread after he realized the last 2 pages are the standard anti-patch bitching...
Last edited by duece on Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
milo
Posts: 844
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:58 am
Location: wouldn't you like to know
Contact:

Post by milo » Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:07 pm

What i dont like about lifespans is there isn't much you can do to preserve em... but if you have to keep them from being permanent, my preferred order of solutions:
1. milo's lose 1/6 when you die thing. This would through something in that needs to be there, real incentive to avoid death. As it stands, exp is worthless unless you're really bored noob, reshipping isn't a big deal, and fuel isn't so hard to manage. But this would through some real risk into fighting/invade which i guess could be nice...
2. artifacts are worn out with use, but not a set time.
3. artifacts need to be repaired (or whatever it was)
4. baby stabbing
5. eating dog crap
6. unextendable time limits

Having any random factor that can make or break the reward of someone who worked hard for something valuable doesn't do much to improve the game...

But i kinda suspects Toonces will have stopped reading this thread after he realized the last 2 pages are the standard anti-patch bitching...
at least someone else see's it my way.
Meh everyone keeps adding ideas that are in my post... and then giving someone else the credit for them ... BAH!!! comeon if the artifacts get nerfed i atleast one some tokens out if it

and comeon personally i think my post solved the inactive artifacts slots argument... maybe u people just dont understand what i said
and yea jwilson6 i do believe i gave you the credit for the slots idea

duece
Posts: 2117
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:39 am

Post by duece » Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:26 pm

woops, meant to edit my post..

Locked