Broken Monkey or Shinshu Dynasty

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?

Shinshu Dynasty - 11nth
23
47%
Broken Monkey - P1
26
53%
 
Total votes: 49

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General_Neox
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Broken Monkey or Shinshu Dynasty

Post by General_Neox » Wed May 03, 2006 4:33 pm

Hey I was just wondering who you guys think would win this war - Or maybe you could just comment on who you think is a more developed and expirienced corp

Shinshu Dynasty versus Broken Monkey
Last edited by General_Neox on Fri May 12, 2006 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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MadAce
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Post by MadAce » Wed May 03, 2006 5:12 pm

More people doesn't mean victory.

SD is just a group of people that really know each other and has some real experience in team play, which is nearly impossible to achieve with 20 people.

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Post by Shadow45 » Wed May 03, 2006 5:33 pm

i voted BM cuz even though i dont play 11th very often anymore when i do play its "RARE" that i see any SD members online. they do have better teamwork skills but BM has more members and we probably have way more colonies than SD. i didnt vote BM just cuz im in their corp.

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Post by Peanut » Wed May 03, 2006 6:53 pm

Shinsu because Broken Monkey is just a bunch of monkeys... that are broken.. o.O
:P

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Post by Relentless » Wed May 03, 2006 7:14 pm

Shadow45 wrote:i voted BM cuz even though i dont play 11th very often anymore when i do play its "RARE" that i see any SD members online. they do have better teamwork skills but BM has more members and we probably have way more colonies than SD. i didnt vote BM just cuz im in their corp.
SD; made of 11 people still have more colonies than all 19 of you combined.

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Post by Shadow45 » Wed May 03, 2006 8:20 pm

how many cols does SD have?

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MadAce
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Post by MadAce » Wed May 03, 2006 8:27 pm

Between 3 and 4. Tho I think they have a 1K colony too. Does that count?

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Post by Relentless » Wed May 03, 2006 8:28 pm

Over 1,500 last time I checked [a month or two ago]

[SD still has it's colonies of that ammount to this day and possibly more]

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Post by RainbowPrince » Thu May 04, 2006 6:01 am

i say BM in the begining of the whole take over The Empire on p1 when all the vets were there not mostly noobs (sorry guys that r in the corp now :wink: ).

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heh

Post by Starwynd » Thu May 04, 2006 9:33 am

Rainbow, BM never did that well until....well everyone quit.

They attacked SFCorp and relent and i went to caeli and we gave them the kibosh in a single day, they couldnt even play for a month and we took like 100+ of their bases.

And "taking over empire"....empires last action on pv1 was attacking caeli republic.....when 11th dimension came out.....last year. From then on they played 11th exclusively and no Battle Royale.

After all the most recent servers, and empire going to BR, and relent and i going to 11th, and p1 dieing totally, then BM recruited a ton of newbies and started invading dead worlds.

3/4ths of SD play actively, but on different servers now.

We have 1,500 colonies or thereabouts, in a month im going to add, alot, to that tally.

So i would say a corp thats defeated 10-60 people at a time in some of the largest wars ever fought (20 people in the same system fighting at times with planet pushes from 20-50 a day involving dozens of sectors and 400+ planets) and fought some of the best in the game would beat a collection of people who got their teeth kicked in and had to wait for the server to die, then recruited 20 random newbies. Who can invade unguarded planets and defeat a corp that is 4/5ths deleted.

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Post by Relentless » Thu May 04, 2006 9:49 am

The way Star puts it; it sounds funny.

Heh. I got shot down on Frontier Wars by newbies; but I was fighting 4-5 of them by myself; and when 50 nukes go up your donkey and they've reshielded atout 2-3 times each when you didn't reshield because you were too busy fighting the rest of them.... you can't exactly always win :P

Heh they died 3 or so times and lost a planet too me when I was fighting nearly their entire corp [Devila's] and apparently after I killed one of their IG ships devila told me i was a noob in a good corp lmfao.

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Post by Zephyr » Wed May 10, 2006 5:07 pm

It's sort of a moot point to discuss 'winning' when in the days of PV1 it was not who could invade the best but build the fastest. The Caeli Republic 'won' at the end of PV1's natural life span because we simply had the most planets on the server, hands down. How do I know this? I did a simple rep check of all Caeli Members (how much rep gained per hour) vs. Empire.

That being said, the Empire had a huge advantage in terms of invasion capacity and it would've taken literally months of their time, but they would've overcome the Caeli Republic had it not been for 11th dimension coming in. That being said, if the 11th Dimension did not come into being, the Caeli-Empire War would have certainly spread to involve ARF and Unity on our side of the table against the Empire and do what happened in BR.

While BM's 'invasion' was interesting in ending the frostbitten hell of PV1, it was really not a true 'war' since the Empire had long vacated most of those planets a long time ago. The way the geography was set up in PV1, if the Empire maintained its holdings and prevented holes appearing in their space, even 20 players would've had a hard time coordinating a successful invasion.

The Empire and its successor Shinshu is pretty much iconic as the most powerful corporation that came into existence and the rules of the game has changed to the point that the Era of Builder-Empires have long faded into obscurity. Thanks to pollution it's nearly impossible to expand rapidly and into null space AND protect one's holdings at the same time.

In terms of single corps, Shinshu and its constituent members are prolly the most powerful, dominating force in SGE and in a battle of equal resources with BM, would beat the living crap out of 'em. No offense to really qualified players like Kwijibo, C'Nedra, and Seth, but it's really tough to break the sort of cooperative staying power that the Empire/Shinshu possessed.

That being said, it is often forgotten that they are only one corp out of many, and the right coordination could easily pushed them back to more manageable positions. If the Caeli-Empire War persisted, eventually, the coalition of Caeli-Unity-ARF would've totally reshaped the PV1 map with minimal interference by BM who was still then largely an obsolete corp thanks to the Caeli-BM War.

In 11th, if Creeper would've tried to join forces with Section 31 instead of attacking it, it might have had a shot in breaking the back of Shinshu Dynasty. But S31 was firmly entrenched in an alliance with Shinshu that became obsolete when S31 disbanded and more importantly, an alliance with Creeper would've been moronic just on the basis of some of the characters that joined up in that corp. S31 (and later yay) in the early to mid period of 11th Dimension was the critical lynchpin to either crowning or unseating Shinshu, but any practical coalitions never emerged.

To my understanding, that successful coalition finally emerged in BR. But I imagine the Empire will regroup and come back in full force.

So with my long discussion asside, my vote (no offense Kwij) has to go to Shinshu.

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Post by Zavrith » Wed May 10, 2006 7:28 pm

At each of their primes, SD would win.

*rolls eyes* Okay, okay, IMHO, they would win. Pffft. W/e. Like I'm ever wrong ;)

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Post by Drifter101 » Wed May 10, 2006 7:40 pm

Yes Shinshu were a lethal group and would perhaps beat an 11-person Broken Monkey.. but the question doesnt say "Who would win Shinshu or 1/2 of Broken Monkey" and Broken Monkey was in fact closer to 40 people than 20 due to the rotation system Kwijibo was using.

For those first few days of the campaign against empire there between 5-20 people invading at all times :shock: and the alliance on BR was in-fact a continuation of that which proved that they are effective against active opposition as well as the dormant (except Viper1) empire on perma1.

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Post by Relentless » Wed May 10, 2006 9:59 pm

Drifter101 wrote: For those first few days of the campaign against empire there between 5-20 people invading at all times :shock: and the alliance on BR was in-fact a continuation of that which proved that they are effective against active opposition as well as the dormant (except Viper1) empire on perma1.
What load of hoarsekrap not just this but the need to argue over 'what would be' and have giant pissing contests.

Everyone has their point of views and of course they won't change... so why the hell do we keep posting here?

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Re: Broken Monkey or Shinshu Dynasty

Post by kluge » Wed May 10, 2006 10:44 pm

General_Neox wrote:Hey I was just wondering who you guys think would this war -

Shinshu Dynasty versus Broken Monkey

...?!?!?!?!?!?... ^--- put a 'WIN' or 'LOSE' in between the red words up there ;)

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Starwynd
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heh

Post by Starwynd » Thu May 11, 2006 12:11 am

Actually, ill put all "U suck haha" aside since my opinion is obviously biased against BM since they gave me alot of trouble when i started, and i very much enjoyed masterminding the plan that totally destroyed them (and caused the taking out of defense rep loss and the modification of npcs to kill laserwalls)

In all honesty, and i think anyone in either corp will agree. Starport cannot support a war of that scale.

Seriously, the BR situation proves my point.

Think about it. Invading 10-50 planets or so while fighting is pretty fun yeah, talking smack, getting adrenaline rushes, hanging out with friends.

But what about 500 planet in? after a month of doing nothing but invading? by that time one side has totally quit, and if its in the older servers where the corps are that large, there isnt a new playerbase.

Who wants to spend all their time, for months (yes literal months, given fuel limitations to take down a 1,000 planet corp it will take quite a long time, no matter how optimistic you are)

Add on the fact that half the community is always in the newest perma to come out? Thats when people get bored and move on, leaving forgotten battlegrounds.

I've invaded, alot. I know how great it is to start out, i also know how it gets after you take 100-200-400-500 planets and you are nowhere near completetion, you have been spending all your free time on starport, you dream about hitting the f6 key, you wake up and start invading and have just a huge list of systems to invade, and if you have no enemies to make it enjoyable. it gets old. quick.

The basic fact of the matter is, if BR and SD were to fight on equal ground, one side or the other would get bored long before any tactical defeat. Such as the Battle Royale issue. Empire was breaking even with MSR and all its helpers, but didnt see a point in spending every waking moment in a war that could last for months. No tactical defeat as empire still has more planets than "The coalition x10" or whatever, but a technical defeat since the enemy pilots quit playing.

And mark my words, there will be empire planets left two months from now no matter how energetic someone is about whiping them out.

If the community were more confined to 1-2 perms with a little bit more spicing up the action (ship variations other features we could write a book on) then a war this large could have some entertainment value.

But seriously, boredom is the true victor in these super wars.

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MadAce
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Post by MadAce » Thu May 11, 2006 12:23 am

You have any ideas how it could be made more "winable" and more enjoyable?

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Starwynd
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Post by Starwynd » Thu May 11, 2006 12:37 am

Well having to wade through countless amounts of the same planetary layouts, with the same defenses using the same tactics and same weapons day after day after day is pretty much what stops wars from escalating.

The primary cause is too many permaservers. instead of giving the "new people" what the desire (an easy perm) and creating new perms every month, the community should be limited to very few, maybe 1-2 perms where people would actually have to fight eachother, instead of moving to greener pastures at the slightest sign of adversity.

Maybe a new randomized planetary layout generation, instead of a preset template consisting of a certain select few. Maybe not to the extreme that no two planets are the same, but still something other than the small amount of planetary layouts now where anyone can develop repetetive tasks to invade.

(do we really want me to get into depth about what i think would spice up the game?)

More teamwork inspired gameplay, different defenses for planets but also a sort of corp bonus for being in the same system, a small movement and handling bonus or a energy recharge or something to that effect for having X many members of said corporation there participating.

More varied gameplay with the addition of new ships, new weapons and new planet variations. Such as converting tiny planets into defense platforms, or gas giants into shortrange NPC fighter bases you have to land on and destroy.

Maybe a galaxy wide system of government that had to be maintained as an empire as opposed to 1,000 random facets of an empire.

Uhhhh.......Events put on by the admins like NPC invasions, my favorite idea i came up with was to have a hunt with token reward, at random a red warphole would appear in one of the galaxy systems somewhere in a galaxy, nobody would know where. But once they found it it would lead to a deadend system not on the map with a large NPC stronghold such as IG ships, said mobile defense platforms and other things as well.

Maybe the addition of actual RPG elements going past the "choose these stats when you join" such as leveling and roles for specific tasks, such as the CEO having to put some time into diplomatic blahblah and whatnot.

More trade options, more things to trade for different types of commodities.

More planetary buildings, more random occurances on planets.

(i could really go on for hours and this is just off the top of my head)

More variations on bounties and the ways to collect them, with bonuses on reputation, in game missions and quests and whatnot.

seriously i better stop now. I can suggest things until im blue in the face, but that doesnt mean toonces will have the time or ability to listen.

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MadAce
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Post by MadAce » Thu May 11, 2006 12:44 am

I noticed the most... fierce measures you suggest involve changes that would only benefit your style of play.


You're forgetting the good ol' builders here.

And with only 2 perma's we'd have 2 stagnating servers in a few months... And a lot of lag.

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Starwynd
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Post by Starwynd » Thu May 11, 2006 12:54 am

You keep saying we would have lag. lag lag alot of lag. lag lag lag too much lag.

How exactly do you know? The coding of starport and its ability to host a server cant be tested like that until its...well tested.

The most active ive ever seen any perm was perm1 and lag wasnt bad and this was before the lag patches. And perms with lower amounts of people have the random lag as well.

Its not about that.

And also, i guess you are saying the current way the game is going is perfect for the builders then? theres just thousands of empty planets ripe for building everyplace in so many different perms.

Oh wait, planets are built for a reason. Nobody just decides they like how their colonists research or how a dome looks. They build them so they become war bases and the foundation to an empire.

New planetary layouts = harder for planets to be invaded since carbon copy tactics cant be repeated, benefits "builders"

Different defense types = more options for builders to use in defense

Galaxy wide government management? RPG style stats to cover diplomacy and everything else? = benefits "Builders"

More planetary buildings and types of planets to build with tiny planets and gas giants being used? = benefits "builders"

More trading options and commodities? = benefits "builders"

Quests and NPC based events (non PVP combat) = benefits builders who dont do PVP combat by providing them with combat with npcs

How is what i said benefiting my style of play? try rereading it.

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MadAce
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Post by MadAce » Thu May 11, 2006 12:57 am

Nope, don't have to.

You're right.

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Starwynd
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Post by Starwynd » Thu May 11, 2006 1:02 am

Im not trying to say "We need more missles to fire" or "We need better ships to use"

I am trying to propose across the board changes, the inclusion of RPG stats that have nothing to do with combat doesnt benefit me, the new layouts would make it harder on me as an invader, the new defenses would make it harder on me.

I fully realize that people have different tastes and playing habits and the game simply needs tweaked, while i was angry at first the pollution was an attempt to add some replay value to the game but toonces doesnt seem to have the time to devote to fine tune starport.

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Post by MadAce » Thu May 11, 2006 1:08 am

Ever since I started playing this game I wanted to find a way to add RPG elements.

I was thinking using Achievement points as some kind of way to buy skills. Each skill would be just a set of changed attributes. Like Wisdom bonusses, or energy regen bonusses with a certain ship...

Not too many. A kind of tree set. Each initial bonus gives you 2 or 3 options and then that next option gives you the last 2 or 3 options.

Simple, but effective.

And I like the idea of more lay-outs.

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Post by Zephyr » Thu May 11, 2006 1:14 am

Change ain't happening and the same configurations of players will be 'winning' each server before they grow cold.

The names always come back and a few cycle through but...

Viper1, TheTsar, MDK, Galruk, JODRAM, Ace, Relentless, Nebu, RedLeader, Nertanef, Peace, Kwijibo, C'nedra, Seth, Black.Dog... you know what, I've made this post before. Like I always do.

SGE needs game-wide changes to shake up things and clean the learning curve slate for everyone. Otherwise, the top 4 corps and really the top two corps will always be the same, give or take a player here and there thanks to the max player limits for each corp.

It's almost incessantly the remnants of the original Empire, MSR, Caeli Republic (Well, Seska and SF), Broken Monkey (before it swelled up to 20-40 people), ARF (and formerly Robot Empire) and possibly Unity if Raid/Seth still play. There's a reason for it folks. There's also a reason why I stopped playing. Sorry guys but the same crap gets old real quick. It got old in 11th and after the pollution stuff, I'm surprised y'all stayed over for BR...

I guess invading can be fun. Usually except for the easiest tunnel layouts, my computer freezes up for me to be any effective in a real invasion.

We'll get pretty new screens and planet counts, but new game mechanics? Where do you think we are? Wizards of the Coast?

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heh

Post by Starwynd » Thu May 11, 2006 1:15 am

More layouts would slow down invasion, but make planets more long term and actually add a bit of a nice twist to invading.

Right now upon landing, within five lands i know exactly how i am going to take a planet and can do it alone.

And how would it be if some corp with high diplomatic pull called out the UN to patrol your space in force with dozens and dozens of fierce NPC (upgraded to special UN commisioned fleets with tactics and whatnot)

Its just tossing out ideas here but theres plenty that could be done, toonces has said he simply doesnt have the time though.

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Post by MadAce » Thu May 11, 2006 1:20 am

JYM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Hence why i'm looking for the more finished ideas with little programming.

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Post by Relentless » Thu May 11, 2006 7:25 am

I think Jym is Toonces' Siamese Twin... they kind of stick together ;)

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Post by Maniacus » Thu May 11, 2006 8:41 am

Shinsu is the new kid on the block, they are coming on the scene as a strong competative force, and seem determined to hang on to what they have.

B.M. on the other hand Is maintained by some of the longest lasting players in the game today. They have the experience to see past most trickery and underhandedness. They would be dificult to manipulate.

I'd say that Shinsu would make a good first effort, but with B.M.'s contacts outside their own corp they could summon thr relief forces and the contracted firepower to make up the difference.

In the end I feel that much devistation would be suffered by both sides, but Broken Monkey would come out as the clear winner.

As for the Poll I also can't vote without a clear stated purpose.

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Post by Relentless » Thu May 11, 2006 10:03 am

maniacus wrote:Shinsu is the new kid on the block, they are coming on the scene as a strong competative force, and seem determined to hang on to what they have.

B.M. on the other hand Is maintained by some of the longest lasting players in the game today. They have the experience to see past most trickery and underhandedness. They would be dificult to manipulate.

I'd say that Shinsu would make a good first effort, but with B.M.'s contacts outside their own corp they could summon thr relief forces and the contracted firepower to make up the difference.

In the end I feel that much devistation would be suffered by both sides, but Broken Monkey would come out as the clear winner.

As for the Poll I also can't vote without a clear stated purpose.
manacius You have no idea what the hell you'r spewing ; hence your avitar "blah blah blah".

You have little knowledge on history from Perma1 from the beggining ; on the other hand I personally do have considerable information. Quite frankly The Original "Shinshu" was all from perma1 that left for the new server 11th Dimension; no one gives a rats donkey about perm1 anymroe or at least anyone truely serios at the time went to 11th dimension.

Then after The and I do say -original- once again; Broken Monkey got bruised they came back; now with no offense to Kwijibo or anything he'll even admit what happened to you. And probably come out with mostly the same story I could come out with.

Oh and about 'trickery' and 'underhandedness' try the classic "risk in space" line from Kwijibo himself 500 times over. [Mostly said after hopefull discussions etc etc]


And wherever all this spweing of nonsense came from I'd say you'r immagining "Shinshu" a completely different corp made of HALF the people of which even that HALF do the menial labour.... against the same HALF and HALF BS from p1 within BM fighting on your oh so beloved perm1.

And though I may sound rash, I'm 100% positive at least someone like oh say Drifter101 could describe to you the horrible lag perm1 had specificly before the npc-laser patch thing... which would explain why the majority of those left in perm1 went to 11th; and then people like Kwijibo who spice converted the entire time Ace's laser walls were up/grids and during our invasions.... came back to perm1. And hey; why come back if you have to plough through 100's of grids/walls?

Anyhows... point being said don't go completely off rumours maniacus :) Go off some damned fact ^_^ It's just annoying to see random people making up their own stories just about anything...

You probably heard I ate a shoe for breakfeast too.

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