Shields now in Weapons Factories.....really?

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WeGotDeathStar
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Shields now in Weapons Factories.....really?

Post by WeGotDeathStar » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:37 am

I can see this for rag............. but the entire game?

Please explain the logic

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Caia
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Re: Shields now in Weapons Factories.....really?

Post by Caia » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:36 am

Its not a bad idea at all if done correctly. It'll offset some of the cost of buying shields which will in turn keep shields at a lower price in ports. This will allow anyone who doesn't have the ability to manufacture them to buy them more easily. Essentially its letting more invasions happen which means more war and more, you know, fun.

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Re: Shields now in Weapons Factories.....really?

Post by -Muffin- » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:31 pm

I love it. I just hope it caps at a certain point.

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Re: Shields now in Weapons Factories.....really?

Post by Kasparov » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:57 pm

The biggest problem ive seen so far is me mistaking lasers for flaks all the time...

But it shouldn't affect the game too much, accept for rag where the sheilds are outrageous.
I'm guessing toonces wanted to make rag a server that favored builders more, so he set the sheild supply really low. THen he got alot of complaints about the sheilds being so expensive, so made it possible for them to be made in planets. So now, if you want to invade on rag, you have to build a little, make some sheilds, and THEN you can mass invade. So, it still favors builders more than just making sheilds cheaper would.

Personally i think any patch that favors builders is a good one, because there are too many people that can just jump to a new server and mass invade without having to build at all. Plus they'll have no exp to worry about so they can just fight and invade without any consequences. Then after 2 weeks they get bored, move on to a new server, and all the planets die. But then again, war is the funnest part of the game, so an equillibrium between pro-invader and pro-builder must be acheived for the best possible gaming experience. And each players preferred experience is different, so its really up to you which server you wanna choose.

For most of the servers, this new patch will have almost no effect. But for Ragnarok, this will have a huge effect because sheilds are just so damn expensive. Even though this patch favors builders more than just making cheaper sheilds would, i guarantee that there will be a large increase in invasions on rag because of this. So hold on to your hats fellas, I feel a big storm a'brewin! It should be fun ;)

-Kasparov

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Re: Shields now in Weapons Factories.....really?

Post by omlow » Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:55 pm

-Muffin- wrote:I love it. I just hope it caps at a certain point.
max is supposedly 100k per wf

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Caia
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Re: Shields now in Weapons Factories.....really?

Post by Caia » Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:53 am

omlow wrote:
-Muffin- wrote:I love it. I just hope it caps at a certain point.
max is supposedly 100k per wf
Sounds very reasonable.

Edit: Actually, that might even be a bit low. For the best invaders it'll be fine. For anyone who is decent at invading, but not great, it'll still be helpful but they're likely to run out of shields before too long. I'd need to see metrics to be sure, but this is the best guess I have without them. In any case, its best to start out conservatively and then bump up the number if needed. Still sounds fairly reasonable, but it'll need to be re-examined in the not too distant future to see how well it works.

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Re: Shields now in Weapons Factories.....really?

Post by Lookingglass » Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:57 pm

100k per fac? Thats not too bad, I was thinking it would be like 500k but I was thinking anything lower than 50k would be pretty useless... 100k seems reasonable like caia said :P

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Re: Shields now in Weapons Factories.....really?

Post by WeGotDeathStar » Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:07 pm

I feel there is no reason for this to be on every server, Rag was the one with shield problems not the others. GA has a port in every system pretty much.

This screws up PvP now cause all a player has to do is land on their col to re-shield, not have to worry about getting into a port. I don't know about you guys but having a player stuck on a col with low shields is very satisfying as well as nuking a player on their own col.

Now it's just lame cause a player can just stay on the col indefinitely. All this patch does is mess up the delicate balance/game dynamics.

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Re: Shields now in Weapons Factories.....really?

Post by gothicorpunk » Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:07 pm

WeGotDeathStar wrote:
This screws up PvP now cause all a player has to do is land on their col to re-shield, not have to worry about getting into a port. I don't know about you guys but having a player stuck on a col with low shields is very satisfying as well as nuking a player on their own col.

Now it's just lame cause a player can just stay on the col indefinitely. All this patch does is mess up the delicate balance/game dynamics.
Makes getting trapped on planets pointless... Makes pvp impossible becuase they can reshield any where..

Now someone invading your planet you can just go there and sit on it nuking them to death or if you in ceo tractoring them non stop sense you dont have to worry about shields.

The hole pvp thing is the worse though i mean you used to have to worry about people getting in the ports to RS but now you have to mine every planet they own and laser the port just to try and kill them.

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Re: Shields now in Weapons Factories.....really?

Post by WeGotDeathStar » Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:14 am

Yup that's why I do not like this patch nor see a reason for it. It's a shame that games these days need to be geared toward unskilled players that cry because they don't want to put the time in to become a better player. They want everything easy for them, oh well what can you do about it anyway.


One thing that should be patched is the Dexterity Bolt in the Admirals Club, it says that it is good thru November 1st, 2013.

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Re: Shields now in Weapons Factories.....really?

Post by -Muffin- » Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:28 pm

This is a very good point.

And if the problem ensues, come to blitz and kill people :D

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Re: Shields now in Weapons Factories.....really?

Post by Toonces » Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:52 am

WeGotDeathStar wrote:Yup that's why I do not like this patch nor see a reason for it.
The reason is to promote invasion, especially in nearby territory. It also seems a natural addition that was easy enough to implement and adds strategic depth to the possibilities of how to go to war, invade, and expand an empire.

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Re: Shields now in Weapons Factories.....really?

Post by Caia » Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:01 pm

Toonces wrote:
WeGotDeathStar wrote:Yup that's why I do not like this patch nor see a reason for it.
The reason is to promote invasion, especially in nearby territory. It also seems a natural addition that was easy enough to implement and adds strategic depth to the possibilities of how to go to war, invade, and expand an empire.
I didn't do PvP before I quit so, I could be way off here... Don't they have a point? While I still like this idea, if it affects the balance of PvP dramatically, perhaps an alternative should be found?

Perhaps just allow reshielding if there are no non-corp players in the system? This would allow the current system to work almost untouched* while still keeping the old PvP style in place.

*There actually would be a small difference in that if you're invading a planet and reshielding at a planet in the same system, anyone could effectively stop you from doing that until you chased them off (or they chased you off). Still I'd be a small price to pay to keep PvP from being changed.

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Re: Shields now in Weapons Factories.....really?

Post by -Muffin- » Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:58 pm

Although that fixes the problem, it's kind of an obscure and lazy fix. It makes no physical sense, in that it wouldn't make any sense if the game was real life, and that should always be taken into account. And it's an obscure rule that no one would figure out naturally. I mean, I don't really have a concrete argument here, but I pretty sure we need to stay realistic here, and when you're a fierce galactic predator looking to keep your life, you're probably not going to just going to stand in your weapons factory and not be able to replenish your shields because someone not in your corp is in the same system.

But if no one can think of a reasonable compromise, I think shields in weapons factories should be removed. It destroys PvP. Just lower port shield prices.

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Re: Shields now in Weapons Factories.....really?

Post by WeGotDeathStar » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:46 pm

I really do think that this is a good idea for RAG because of the shield problem that exists on that server but like everyone one else had agreed it does ruin PvP dramatically. This only gets amplified on servers that have a lot of ports per systems.

While I mean no disrespect and I appreciate that something was done to address the shield on RAG it is at best a Band-Aid attempt at doing it. While I know nothing about coding it would seem more reasonable to just patch RAG if it could be done to adjust the port shield prices. One way to fix this would be lower the shield price by 75% so if you have to re-shield when the port is at 6% it will not cost 6 million to do this. Also the ports seem to run out of items way too fast which in someways a good thing for builders but bad for invaders. But it does promote players buying IG Ships keeping token sales going, perhaps lower the price of a IG Ship only on RAG so people would be more inclined to purchase tokens.

A StarBase running out of ships especially ISC's is frustrating, I have seen this even with the prices low say 200k for a ISC but the base is "sold out" Again I do not know coding at all but if there was a way to adjust the major complaints without re-banging the server it would make everyone happy. RAG is a builders server and should remain that way it's just that the balance between builders / invaders is too much. And I do realize it has always been a difficult balance to keep both styles of play fair for both parties.

Something to consider is changing the shield availability and prices randomly every week or so. For example week one (2) would favor builders with the prices and week two (2) would favor invaders. I think if something was done smiler to this the server would remain active for a long time keeping a variety of random scenarios available for all players.

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Re: Shields now in Weapons Factories.....really?

Post by Caia » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:49 am

WeGotDeathStar wrote:I really do think that this is a good idea for RAG because of the shield problem that exists on that server but like everyone one else had agreed it does ruin PvP dramatically. This only gets amplified on servers that have a lot of ports per systems.
Snipped the rest of the reply.

Demand is (generally) extremely low as it is. The one exception would be shields due to everyone needing them pretty much every time they play for any length of time. As I understand it, Toonces is using the same algorithm for prices one shields and all the stuff tat doesn't tend to sell. Its quite possible using a different algorithm for shields may help the issue, though.

Toonces: If you want to encourage invasion, perhaps a solution would be to simply cut shield prices by half or even three quarters. Start them at 20, but make sure they increase at a significantly slower pace.

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Re: Shields now in Weapons Factories.....really?

Post by -Muffin- » Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:54 pm

Uhh... Can't he just replace Rag's shield code with a different perma's shield code snippet? That would be a super easy fix. No need to make different weeks different things. That would be cray cray.

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Re: Shields now in Weapons Factories.....really?

Post by Caia » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:04 am

-Muffin- wrote:Uhh... Can't he just replace Rag's shield code with a different perma's shield code snippet? That would be a super easy fix. No need to make different weeks different things. That would be cray cray.
Sure. But it'd be a band-aid fix until either more players started playing making a supply and demand market work or someone figures out how to make it work without a larger player base.

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Re: Shields now in Weapons Factories.....really?

Post by -Muffin- » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:29 am

So the lack of shields in Rag is only a result of high activity? I thought the code for shields in Rag was different than the rest of the servers.

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