Proposals for the next Permaverse

[WeGotDeathStar]

Unless there is a radical change for the better, like making a server that has one shot solars and the true dynamics of the old starport is reinstated then don't bother making a new perma.

[JuliusCaesar]

Unless there is a radical change for the better, like making a server that has one shot solars and the true dynamics of the old starport is reinstated then don't bother making a new perma.

I agree, but the main issue with this is getting builders to participate. Who wants to build on a server without multishot solars?

I have a few points and caveats in this regard.

First, no port spamming, never ever forever. Sure building is easier, but then invading and fighting becomes ghey as hell.

The most promising idea I've seen in making builders come, is an across the board increase in harvesting yield. This will allow for faster solars, higher tax yields, easier defenses construction, easier construction, and generally make it easier and faster for them without affecting invading mechanics too much.

Next, add some new buildings and researches and tweak the research-outcome probability. Seriously, make it more interesting because right now it is boring as hell. Some new building ideas include an uber-graviton beam emitted from the biodome, ship construction yards and trade hubs, etc. I am clueless on new researches, beyond a possible free-dd research, but I'm sure if toocnes tones down the instances of spice mining and commodity trading building might be more appealing...

[duece]

If you make building like it was back with 1 shots, then builders will build again. I mean it introduces other problems like the server filling up in 3-6 months and then dying, but the definition of an active server now matches what used to be called a dead server. I'd also love to see a true old style server out of curiosity, it would establish once and for all if starport is losing players because it's less appealing or if it's because of something else. I think for one reason or another starport just doesn't hook people like it used to, and having a rapid expansion phase in every new perma was really fun.

[omlow]

I agree, but the main issue with this is getting builders to participate. Who wants to build on a server without multishot solars?

building would have to be made easier to balance it. but at the moment it's balanced too high, building takes longer than it should, costs lots of money and is no fun, and invading takes longer than it should, costs lots of money and is no fun...

[WeGotDeathStar]

Unless there is a radical change for the better, like making a server that has one shot solars and the true dynamics of the old starport is reinstated then don't bother making a new perma.

I agree, but the main issue with this is getting builders to participate. Who wants to build on a server without multishot solars?

I have a few points and caveats in this regard.

First, no port spamming, never ever forever. Sure building is easier, but then invading and fighting becomes ghey as hell.

The most promising idea I've seen in making builders come, is an across the board increase in harvesting yield. This will allow for faster solars, higher tax yields, easier defenses construction, easier construction, and generally make it easier and faster for them without affecting invading mechanics too much.

Next, add some new buildings and researches and tweak the research-outcome probability. Seriously, make it more interesting because right now it is boring as hell. Some new building ideas include an uber-graviton beam emitted from the biodome, ship construction yards and trade hubs, etc. I am clueless on new researches, beyond a possible free-dd research, but I'm sure if toocnes tones down the instances of spice mining and commodity trading building might be more appealing...

It's this simple, the OLD Starport worked, it was fun and we had 10x the people playing that we have now.And more importantly the game was GROWING. Ever since the changes made the player base has gone down and down with every patch that gets released. Refinery slider patch put this into motion and the mod patches set off a downward spiral.

A lot of new things have been tryed they past year or two with little to no effect. It's time to go back to Old School Starport, if that doesn't work then I really don't know what will. Remember, when the rumor was that the Classics server was going to be a roll back to the old ways we had 100+ ppl on that server for at least 2 weeks. Once they figured out that nothing had changed other then 10k pop planets they left again.


One last thing, how are the new prices of everything going to encourage new players starting out? If you keep the prices the way they are then you are guaranteeing that new people will quit this game.

[duece]

I agree with wegotdeathstar, on pretty much everything. The old starport worked, and we should try it again.. even as just an experiment on one server, and then start working in some of its characteristics into other servers.

[General_Neox]

Unless there is a radical change for the better, like making a server that has one shot solars and the true dynamics of the old starport is reinstated then don't bother making a new perma.

I agree, but the main issue with this is getting builders to participate. Who wants to build on a server without multishot solars?

I have a few points and caveats in this regard.

First, no port spamming, never ever forever. Sure building is easier, but then invading and fighting becomes ghey as hell.

The most promising idea I've seen in making builders come, is an across the board increase in harvesting yield. This will allow for faster solars, higher tax yields, easier defenses construction, easier construction, and generally make it easier and faster for them without affecting invading mechanics too much.

Next, add some new buildings and researches and tweak the research-outcome probability. Seriously, make it more interesting because right now it is boring as hell. Some new building ideas include an uber-graviton beam emitted from the biodome, ship construction yards and trade hubs, etc. I am clueless on new researches, beyond a possible free-dd research, but I'm sure if toocnes tones down the instances of spice mining and commodity trading building might be more appealing...

Props to Julius for acknowledging the builder. Personally I can agree with some of this as I am a builder myself, and I can also agree with most of you that perhaps a new perma isn't needed right at the moment.
My suggestion would be like Julius said to have some research or defense additions to the game to get more builders playing and therefor in turnincreasing the all around player activity of SGE. After that were to be accomplished perhaps banging not a no-mod server but a restricted mod server as there really is no point in banning mods like bulkheads, sails and performance mods such as steering, thrust and energy dynamos as these are the types of mods that people don't have problems with and that simply increase the quality of choice in ship-set-up and building speed without making pvp annoying and fidgety.
And bottom line is if u want builders to come you need to have fog of war as the anonymity of locations of systems in the fog gives builders that extra little bit of cloak to be more effective.
A final point I'd like to make is KEEP POP MAXES THE WAY THEY ARE. As a builder I enjoy the rewards of building higher populated colonies and I always like the suspense of researching a zoundable colony.
This idea would be a mix of new-school and old-school rules and would be the most effective imho.

[WeGotDeathStar]

Also a simple solution to the port-spam is this. Have ports disappear after a while and respawn somewhere else.

The builder argument is a good one but again if we get a server that's as close to old starport as possible then it will have no problem being filled up. It will just be a matter of changing dome placements to adjust the single solar shots.

Fog of War concept is a nice idea but we do not need another server with it. Plain and simple FW failed to ever take off for many reasons, GA beat it hands down for the first 4 months. There was a slight increase of players recently but it has since died off and the action has returned to GA.

[General_Neox]

The only reason GA has mroe activity right now is because of the war. It shifts back and forth between the servers depending on whats going on.

[Major]

The only reason GA has mroe activity right now is because of the war. It shifts back and forth between the servers depending on whats going on.

not entirely true.

helping newbs keeps em coming around. there are 3-4 regular newbies that clock in hours everyday trying to figure this game out. it eats up some of my playing time answering their questions but it also inflates the servers numbers thus making more folks login.

activity breds activity.

be it a war, some dumb promotion, helping everyone that asks, or a combination of all three...its makes folks want to play where their friends might be.

killing noobs is also fun, so i credit you that.

[BardockSGE]

Modules were bound for failure. Sorry. I'm not the first nor will I be the last one to say it. How in the living hell, did you think you were ever going to be able to balance out modules?

The game back in the day was one thousand times more stable than it is now.

Honestly. Atleast back in the good days we had an idea of what was going through Toonces' head, now? I'm clueless. I haven't the slightest idea what Toons is thinking.

The game we used to love is dead. It's not coming back. That has been made clear to us over time.

I still love how a 'Classic Homeworld' was released, just to be patched apon. When I heard modules are coming out, I thought to myself "Well gee, MAYBE, classics will be exempt from this new I love puppies patch being released"

Modules released, OH LOOK THEY WERE INTRODUCED TO CLASSICS AS WELL, HOORAAAAAYY. /facepalm
CLASSIC HOMEWORLDS WOULD STILL BE ALIVE TO THIS DAY HAD IT BEEN THE SERVER SPARED OF THAT I love puppies PATCH

Am I the only one still butthurt over that male chicken-tease of a server?

[JesusRocks765]

Apparently SGE has been wrecked for 1 reason: Toonces made a bad patch, but instead of reversing it, he made another bad patch to "Cancel it out" and another and another after that, all to restore the balance that was already there. While perhaps 2 or 3 actually useful patches were made in this period, we can all agree that the SGE before bad patches were made was a better SGE. Why not configure this one perma to the old SGE settings, pull players from the other dying servers, and delete the dying servers. I hope someone likes this idea.

[omlow]

Apparently SGE has been wrecked for 1 reason: Toonces made a bad patch, but instead of reversing it, he made another bad patch to "Cancel it out" and another and another after that, all to restore the balance that was already there. While perhaps 2 or 3 actually useful patches were made in this period, we can all agree that the SGE before bad patches were made was a better SGE. Why not configure this one perma to the old SGE settings, pull players from the other dying servers, and delete the dying servers. I hope someone likes this idea.

you never spoke a truer word.

[General_Neox]

tbh at some point I think Toonces is just going to delete this game and start a new one from scratch xD

[Moleman]

tbh at some point I think Toonces is just going to delete this game and start a new one from scratch xD

[General_Neox]

?? lol

[inevamis]

The old star port could have been the best game ever made lol. I can't even play the current star port for 5 mins.

Bring back p4-p5 days!

Trust me Toonces you're going to feel so much better once you finally give in

[JesusRocks765]

Apparently SGE has been wrecked for 1 reason: Toonces made a bad patch, but instead of reversing it, he made another bad patch to "Cancel it out" and another and another after that, all to restore the balance that was already there. While perhaps 2 or 3 actually useful patches were made in this period, we can all agree that the SGE before bad patches were made was a better SGE. Why not configure this one perma to the old SGE settings, pull players from the other dying servers, and delete the dying servers. I hope someone likes this idea.

you never spoke a truer word.

Thanks, lets hope toonces agrees.

[General_Neox]

Yo yall think he might just be to hugging lazy to recode everrything lmao

The man does smoke a lot of ganj

[Havok]

I agree, but the main issue with this is getting builders to participate. Who wants to build on a server without multishot solars?

Whats the point in building when harvesting got so hugged up by the 75-shot solar patch, that you have to choose between either having shitty solars and low pollution, or good/great solars that require cleaning every other day? With all that cleaning what time would I have to continue building more colonies, or recapping for that matter. When you lower the standards for invading, making it easy enough to cap in a speedstar, theres no point in builders spending hours of their time, hauling resources, defences, and babying the col to get good research, and then watch them all get capped by no-talent donkey-clowns who whined enough to get invading made piss easy. You want builders back? Bring back 25/35 shot solars. Maybe then I'll feel like rebuilding my 600+ colony empire from whatever ruins of it are left.

[JuliusCaesar]

I agree, but the main issue with this is getting builders to participate. Who wants to build on a server without multishot solars?

Whats the point in building when harvesting got so hugged up by the 75-shot solar patch, that you have to choose between either having shitty solars and low pollution, or good/great solars that require cleaning every other day? With all that cleaning what time would I have to continue building more colonies, or recapping for that matter. When you lower the standards for invading, making it easy enough to cap in a speedstar, theres no point in builders spending hours of their time, hauling resources, defences, and babying the col to get good research, and then watch them all get capped by no-talent donkey-clowns who whined enough to get invading made piss easy. You want builders back? Bring back 25/35 shot solars. Maybe then I'll feel like rebuilding my 600+ colony empire from whatever ruins of it are left.

You clearly haven't read the thread or you would understand the context I posted that in, and what in the hell everyone else is talking about. gtfo

[JesusRocks765]

You want builders back? Bring back 25/35 shot solars.

QFT Too bad toonces doesnt care - I mean we are talking about something HE PROPOSED and he hasn't said a word.

[fredfredburger]

My suggestion:

FIRST: Delete the dead servers.

Name: Horologium Supercluster
Galactic Map:


This galaxy holds many arms and large galactic fronts, this allows for invaders to invade and builders to build (since corp sizes will be fairly large)

Size: Very large, about as many stars as HC.
Port Frequency: 65%
Planet Frequency: 1-9
NPCs: 1200
Starting Money: 5mil.
Fuel Regen: Fast, .9/minute
Star Bases: 4 PB, 4 UN
Only Layouts: OLD LAYOUTS ONLY
Mods: No mods
Difficulty: Extreme (so not everything is a 10k pop)
FoW: Yes, but please show warp connections.. The current method of FoW is pathetic. It needs to show warplanes that branch off of the star system, even if you dont go to them. Or at the very least, show warps on the galaxy map when you select a system.
Corp Sizes: 7
Starting UN cols: VERY MANY.


Idk thats my suggestion tho. OR I'd like a really small combat oriented CW style map, but thats not happening. Meh.

cool idea, but wont happen.

[Havok]

I agree, but the main issue with this is getting builders to participate. Who wants to build on a server without multishot solars?

Whats the point in building when harvesting got so hugged up by the 75-shot solar patch, that you have to choose between either having shitty solars and low pollution, or good/great solars that require cleaning every other day? With all that cleaning what time would I have to continue building more colonies, or recapping for that matter. When you lower the standards for invading, making it easy enough to cap in a speedstar, theres no point in builders spending hours of their time, hauling resources, defences, and babying the col to get good research, and then watch them all get capped by no-talent donkey-clowns who whined enough to get invading made piss easy. You want builders back? Bring back 25/35 shot solars. Maybe then I'll feel like rebuilding my 600+ colony empire from whatever ruins of it are left.

You clearly haven't read the thread or you would understand the context I posted that in, and what in the hell everyone else is talking about. gtfo

You need to chill the hug out JC. You talked in an earlier posts about getting builders re-involved in the game, I posted telling you why they've all quit/won't bother building anymore. If you look at the first sentence of my post, I mention harvesting, something you also hit on, quite well I might add, in the same post I quoted:

The most promising idea I've seen in making builders come, is an across the board increase in harvesting yield. This will allow for faster solars, higher tax yields, easier defenses construction, easier construction, and generally make it easier and faster for them without affecting invading mechanics too much.

Take a prozac or something dude, not everyone's trying to tear down your ideas, quit being so hyper-sensitive.

[duece]

Building and invading both need to be faster. The old problem was that galaxies would fill up, so toonces made colonies harder to maintain to stop people from building too much. Then he made invading harder to compensate for how long it takes to build colonies. So now galaxies don't fill up, and builders don't get crushed out of existence. The problem is, if someone has enough colonies that they don't want anymore, what else is there to do in the game? The answer is nothing. Toonces balanced the problem of too many large empires by making it so having a large empire was boring, but that was the only thing fun about the game in the first place. So the solution ended up being make starport boring enough that galaxies never fill up. Now... I don't think that was the best approach.

[WeGotDeathStar]

Building and invading both need to be faster. The old problem was that galaxies would fill up, so toonces made colonies harder to maintain to stop people from building too much. Then he made invading harder to compensate for how long it takes to build colonies. So now galaxies don't fill up, and builders don't get crushed out of existence. The problem is, if someone has enough colonies that they don't want anymore, what else is there to do in the game? The answer is nothing. Toonces balanced the problem of too many large empires by making it so having a large empire was boring, but that was the only thing fun about the game in the first place. So the solution ended up being make starport boring enough that galaxies never fill up. Now... I don't think that was the best approach.

QFT

[JesusRocks765]

You need to chill the hug out JC. You talked in an earlier posts about getting builders re-involved in the game, I posted telling you why they've all quit/won't bother building anymore. If you look at the first sentence of my post, I mention harvesting, something you also hit on, quite well I might add, in the same post I quoted:

The most promising idea I've seen in making builders come, is an across the board increase in harvesting yield. This will allow for faster solars, higher tax yields, easier defenses construction, easier construction, and generally make it easier and faster for them without affecting invading mechanics too much.

Take a prozac or something dude, not everyone's trying to tear down your ideas, quit being so hyper-sensitive.

IKR? This guy gets really mad, really fast, and for no reason. Crazy kid needs to chill out.

Building and invading both need to be faster. The old problem was that galaxies would fill up, so toonces made colonies harder to maintain to stop people from building too much. Then he made invading harder to compensate for how long it takes to build colonies. So now galaxies don't fill up, and builders don't get crushed out of existence. The problem is, if someone has enough colonies that they don't want anymore, what else is there to do in the game? The answer is nothing. Toonces balanced the problem of too many large empires by making it so having a large empire was boring, but that was the only thing fun about the game in the first place. So the solution ended up being make starport boring enough that galaxies never fill up. Now... I don't think that was the best approach.

QFT

QFT again, and I believe THIS would solve it:

Apparently SGE has been wrecked for 1 reason: Toonces made a bad patch, but instead of reversing it, he made another bad patch to "Cancel it out" and another and another after that, all to restore the balance that was already there. While perhaps 2 or 3 actually useful patches were made in this period, we can all agree that the SGE before bad patches were made was a better SGE. Why not configure this one perma to the old SGE settings, pull players from the other dying servers, and delete the dying servers. I hope someone likes this idea.

So wake up Toonces! and fix your game to save it!

[LordSturm]

JC, you miss the point. 10/120 DDs are not challenging. a 5/120 DD would be, as contradictory as it seems. in fact invading was at it's most challenging BEFORE multi shot solars, because the player standard was high. in those times in order to be an 'alright' invader you had to be able to slide just about anything, dis solars for long periods without dying, and do insane caps. now, to be an 'alright' invader, you need to be able to clean pollution on nuke cols, collect lots of tax, and have relatively little ship positioning or aiming or timing etc skills.

besides, difficulty is relative. a 20/120 is no harder than a 1/30, it just takes a whole lot more time and money. most people would probably have more 'fun' doing the 1/30 because it's faster, smoother, and there is more potential for variety, rather than just land, nuke, rs, land nuke rs. and 'fun' is what leads to activity and token sales.

im sorry, but this statement is absolutely and completely wrong.

a 20/120 is definately alot harder than a 1/30 anything that requires more resource imput than another like activity is "harder" thats just a basic understanding of the large concept of what difficulty is.

invading was not more challenging back during 1 shots because the player standard was high.

your describing the ability to hold onto planets being more difficult back then.

and to state 10/120 dds are easier than 5/120 dds holding all other stats constant is silly. im not sure that statement was even thought out.

invading is definately harder after the solar damage increase especially on servers like GA where colony settings are really easy most planets there can still easily mantain their 8 9 or 10 bursts which the ore patch was supposed to change, and now do triple damage. add to this the fact that certain new layouts are literally impossible to invade solo because the dome is literally one foot below the warp and is firing right as you land or its impoosible to throw off the solar long enough in layouts like fog's if your solo.

all the solar patch did was kill off solo invading for alot of people who cannot stand the monotony of rinse and repeat reshielding and killing every laser on the planet.

[duece]

Invading was as hard back in the 1 shot days because if you didn't invade 20-80 (depending on corp size) in one session you did a bad job. As long as you're competing against people who can respond, it is always like that. It's not necessarily like that anymore because every server is dead, and human interaction is gone.

As for the quality of invasion, I'd argue that there was a lot more skill and creativity in invasion back with 1 shots. Invasion is harder now because it requires more resources (nukes, credits, and invaders), but once you get those resources it's not any harder skill-wise. Having 5 people landing together on a fog and firing off 2 nukes at a time isn't difficult, it's just slow. Sliding into a 1 shot col solo, using 8 nukes to open the corner of the dome, and corner capping before dying was very difficult (skill-wise). But now instead of that being 1/15th of invading one col, that used to get you a colony.

In the old way, a typical empire had 500-1500 colonies, and overnight you'd lose 30-40 to invaders. And you'd have to invade it all back and more if you wanted to defend yourself. Now the quantities are much less, which would be OK, but now starport has lost most of its player base because the new way isn't as appealing.

[Havok]

In the old way, a typical empire had 500-1500 colonies, and overnight you'd lose 30-40 to invaders. And you'd have to invade it all back and more if you wanted to defend yourself. Now the quantities are much less, which would be OK, but now starport has lost most of its player base because the new way isn't as appealing.

QFT