If we don't...

[Manganator]

If we don't find a way to limit the holdings of empires, a few powerful corps will always end up owning the entire server.

As long as this is true, Starport is destined to be a game of a few fags, cleaning huge empires in empty servers.

What game changes could we put into place to ensure that while corps can gain power, they cannot kill servers in this manner?

[LordSturm]

First off more people need to play sge. the more people competing the harder it is for one to gain dominance.

artificial penalties designed to halt growth imo are a slippery slope to think about using. there needs to be a balance of limiting the people that never log off and token everything and outright punishing those that are inherently better at the game.

perhaps having something else to do than just own planets? if there was more endgame content then having planets then that would allow others to gain planets if there was less drive to own a ton of them.

some people have suggested everyone have an anchor or home planet that as you move farther and farther from your planets have more and more pollution and morale problems. I have always hated this idea because i personally like having planets all over the server and not necessarily owning everything in one area.

something as simple as server layout plays a big part in how a server is dominated. servers like 11th and Hercules that are clusters and are bigger than servers like p5 are generally not owned by one person. a server like p5 that has much less defined areas generally get owned by one supercorp. (being in that supercorp at one point we almost owned everything the 2nd biggest corp there had 800k total followers for 8 people and we had 17 million) and I admit while it was fun owning p5 it was just that, it was owned by one person. there was no reason to buy tokens there and no real reason for people to start playing.

Honestly though i think that the patches have made the game more boring, which is killing anyone's real drive to own a server, but by the same token they have made it easier for people to hold onto what they have (ref slider patch makes bigger solars possible, double domes can make cols almost impossible to cap)

I think if sge was back to its old settings pre module, pre refinery slider patch and nukes actually dodge-able with skill and not the purchase of 5 flight mods we would see a lot less of supercorps. because not only was the game a lot more fun to play but solo invaders could wreak havoc on established corps. If sge was back to a time when it was feasible to torp out an earth planet because they could only handle a few shots max then it would be harder for corps to own everything. unfortunately sge has lost many of the players who took joy out of trying to break up the established order, everyone is content to just maintain the status quo because trying to do anything else the odds are more heavily stacked against you and its just more boring to do.

[MadAce]

The downfall began when Toonces introduced Perma's. Perma's just don't work with the old SGE mechanics. And the new SGE mechanics aren't as fun.
In stead of trying to fix server stagnation by punishing players he should have engineered a sustainable solution.

He didn't. It's been one improvisation move after the other.



SGE can still be fixed. Its core ideas how they were are still viable in the current mmo landscape. Even more so. In many ways SGE is more relevant than ever showing how much it was always ahead of its time.

But I'm afraid explaining how SGE can be fixed will take more than 100 words or less. That's Toonces' limit for the length of ideas, btw.



SGE could be a money maker of untold epic proportions. But seeing in what kind of amateurish way the double domes were released recently I very much doubt that will ever happen.


There is no overall game plan, there is a list of features. But that's what you can't do in a sandbox. In a theme park, sure. Not in SGE. In SGE you don't need a list of features. You need a final vision of the game. Then you build it and allow the community to create content.


It just won't happen and there's nothing the community can do. What I perceive to be left of the community doesn't have the leverage to influence the policy n a constructive, thought-out and long term manner. It's not mature enough and most certainly not large enough. It also couldn't care less.

[NARUTARD]

It just won't happen and there's nothing the community can do. What I perceive to be left of the community doesn't have the leverage to influence the policy n a constructive, thought-out and long term manner. It's not mature enough and most certainly not large enough. It also couldn't care less.

My ideas aren't that bad are they? xD. People miss old invading and old fighting no questions there. Overall player base dropped when required resource consumption and multi-shot solars hit no questions there. IDK bout you but I HATE having to rebuild a colony and even more so if it got bad researches. Multi-shot solars aren't an awful idea but they do need to be tweaked more... Not nerfed... TWEAKED! As someone who invaded more back w/ 1 shots I can say getting hit by the damn thing more than a few times and pretty much not be phased by it just disappoints me to see it have gone down the drain like she did...

[Manganator]

The fixes Toonces has done so far have made the game less fun, and more labor intensive.

Toonces' efforts, while driving players away and making the game less fun, has not stopped sad little assholes from owning entire servers. (Sad little assholes = SLA)

We must therefore conclude, that it wont matter how labor intensive Toonces makes it. As long as it is humanly possible to own the entire server, some SLA is going to do it. In order to balance the game against the worst of the SLA, he'd have to destroy the game for everyone else.

Therefore, we must realize the only way to counteract the SLA is by making it literally impossible for any value of SLA to own the entire server.

The first step should be to revoke pollution and consumable patches, to make the game less work and more play.

However, this alone won't solve the problem, even with all the negative patches revoked, a single power will still, inevitable destroy all competition, and drive them from the game.

To make it impossible for SLA to own an entire server, we need game dynamics that prevent it wholesale, by making it literally impossible for SLA to own entire servers.

The fix for this... is to limit empire size. I suggest we revisit Madace's idea of having "Different types of corporate governance", each with their strengths and weaknesses... HOWEVER, each style of governance will have different limitations on their holdings.

If outposts throughout the galaxy are so important to you, I suggest that a Corporate "Governance Type" be established that will allow you to own such scattered outposts.

[MadAce]

The fixes Toonces has done so far have made the game less fun, and more labor intensive.

Toonces' efforts, while driving players away and making the game less fun, has not stopped sad little assholes from owning entire servers. (Sad little assholes = SLA)

We must therefore conclude, that it wont matter how labor intensive Toonces makes it. As long as it is humanly possible to own the entire server, some SLA is going to do it. In order to balance the game against the worst of the SLA, he'd have to destroy the game for everyone else.

Therefore, we must realize the only way to counteract the SLA is by making it literally impossible for any value of SLA to own the entire server.

The first step should be to revoke pollution and consumable patches, to make the game less work and more play.

However, this alone won't solve the problem, even with all the negative patches revoked, a single power will still, inevitable destroy all competition, and drive them from the game.

To make it impossible for SLA to own an entire server, we need game dynamics that prevent it wholesale, by making it literally impossible for SLA to own entire servers.

The fix for this... is to limit empire size. I suggest we revisit Madace's idea of having "Different types of corporate governance", each with their strengths and weaknesses... HOWEVER, each style of governance will have different limitations on their holdings.

If outposts throughout the galaxy are so important to you, I suggest that a Corporate "Governance Type" be established that will allow you to own such scattered outposts.

I'm against limits that feel artificial. So no random "you've hit the max number of planets cap" rule.

What do you think about this:

Do not delete all remaining servers, just no longer allow new characters to be made there.

Bang a galaxy with only a small portion of the map explored.

Allow people to explore the galaxy.

But here's the thing. Each warp gate has a variable warp fuel cost, which decreases as the gate has been used more. The result of this is that people will only "unlock" more parts of the galaxy as the incentive for exploration grows. This incentive could be overcrowding.
This system will create an explored/unexplored or if you will civilized/uncivilized galaxy.



Oh, and limit taxi and escort missions to well-traveled parts of the galaxy.




Adding to that I'd say... Make the galaxy big. And I mean BIG. MASSIVE. Humongous.

There is a limit to the organisational skills of the SLA. A big galaxy will be a curb-stomp in itself.

Of course there's the smart variant of the SLA. Usually the ones with a dead-end job and lots of frustration coupled with too much brains. These people are willing to teach themselves advanced Excel skills if need be to organize their conquests.

Luckily the Smart Sad Little chia pet (SSLA) always attracts other SSLA who happen to be just as ambitious. Then infighting will destroy these SSLA Empires in the long run.

[gamanche]

limiting empires is ridiculous... and ideas coming from people who dont play is even more

[MadAce]

limiting empires is ridiculous... and ideas coming from people who dont play is even more

If you can point out an issue in any of my reasoning feel free to point it out.




It'll of course have to be something that I haven't found out myself since I started thinking about this kind of stuff since 2004.

[NARUTARD]

limiting empires is ridiculous... and ideas coming from people who dont play is even more

If you can point out an issue in any of my reasoning feel free to point it out.




It'll of course have to be something that I haven't found out myself since I started thinking about this kind of stuff since 2004.

Um yeah you can't "rule the galaxy" if you cant own all the planets... So what, you invade till you get oh say 2000 planets is the cap, then what? You sit there trolling the game selling everything you have for tokens so you can just manage to invade again in hopes a new server bangs?

[Manganator]

The fixes Toonces has done so far have made the game less fun, and more labor intensive.

Toonces' efforts, while driving players away and making the game less fun, has not stopped sad little assholes from owning entire servers. (Sad little assholes = SLA)

We must therefore conclude, that it wont matter how labor intensive Toonces makes it. As long as it is humanly possible to own the entire server, some SLA is going to do it. In order to balance the game against the worst of the SLA, he'd have to destroy the game for everyone else.

Therefore, we must realize the only way to counteract the SLA is by making it literally impossible for any value of SLA to own the entire server.

The first step should be to revoke pollution and consumable patches, to make the game less work and more play.

However, this alone won't solve the problem, even with all the negative patches revoked, a single power will still, inevitable destroy all competition, and drive them from the game.

To make it impossible for SLA to own an entire server, we need game dynamics that prevent it wholesale, by making it literally impossible for SLA to own entire servers.

The fix for this... is to limit empire size. I suggest we revisit Madace's idea of having "Different types of corporate governance", each with their strengths and weaknesses... HOWEVER, each style of governance will have different limitations on their holdings.

If outposts throughout the galaxy are so important to you, I suggest that a Corporate "Governance Type" be established that will allow you to own such scattered outposts.

I'm against limits that feel artificial. So no random "you've hit the max number of planets cap" rule.

What do you think about this:

Do not delete all remaining servers, just no longer allow new characters to be made there.

Bang a galaxy with only a small portion of the map explored.

Allow people to explore the galaxy.

But here's the thing. Each warp gate has a variable warp fuel cost, which decreases as the gate has been used more. The result of this is that people will only "unlock" more parts of the galaxy as the incentive for exploration grows. This incentive could be overcrowding.
This system will create an explored/unexplored or if you will civilized/uncivilized galaxy.



Oh, and limit taxi and escort missions to well-traveled parts of the galaxy.




Adding to that I'd say... Make the galaxy big. And I mean BIG. MASSIVE. Humongous.

There is a limit to the organisational skills of the SLA. A big galaxy will be a curb-stomp in itself.

Of course there's the smart variant of the SLA. Usually the ones with a dead-end job and lots of frustration coupled with too much brains. These people are willing to teach themselves advanced Excel skills if need be to organize their conquests.

Luckily the Smart Sad Little chia pet (SSLA) always attracts other SSLA who happen to be just as ambitious. Then infighting will destroy these SSLA Empires in the long run.

I motion that a SGE constitutional convention be established via MSN-Chat, where representatives from each of the game's major powers is invited into a chat platform upon which to discuss changing the game.

However, delegates must have at least a "proficient" level of intelligence, meaning that Gamanche is not allowed to partake.

Narutard and Madace, I believe the three of us would make a good starting point for such a delegation!

[MadAce]

The fixes Toonces has done so far have made the game less fun, and more labor intensive.

Toonces' efforts, while driving players away and making the game less fun, has not stopped sad little assholes from owning entire servers. (Sad little assholes = SLA)

We must therefore conclude, that it wont matter how labor intensive Toonces makes it. As long as it is humanly possible to own the entire server, some SLA is going to do it. In order to balance the game against the worst of the SLA, he'd have to destroy the game for everyone else.

Therefore, we must realize the only way to counteract the SLA is by making it literally impossible for any value of SLA to own the entire server.

The first step should be to revoke pollution and consumable patches, to make the game less work and more play.

However, this alone won't solve the problem, even with all the negative patches revoked, a single power will still, inevitable destroy all competition, and drive them from the game.

To make it impossible for SLA to own an entire server, we need game dynamics that prevent it wholesale, by making it literally impossible for SLA to own entire servers.

The fix for this... is to limit empire size. I suggest we revisit Madace's idea of having "Different types of corporate governance", each with their strengths and weaknesses... HOWEVER, each style of governance will have different limitations on their holdings.

If outposts throughout the galaxy are so important to you, I suggest that a Corporate "Governance Type" be established that will allow you to own such scattered outposts.

I'm against limits that feel artificial. So no random "you've hit the max number of planets cap" rule.

What do you think about this:

Do not delete all remaining servers, just no longer allow new characters to be made there.

Bang a galaxy with only a small portion of the map explored.

Allow people to explore the galaxy.

But here's the thing. Each warp gate has a variable warp fuel cost, which decreases as the gate has been used more. The result of this is that people will only "unlock" more parts of the galaxy as the incentive for exploration grows. This incentive could be overcrowding.
This system will create an explored/unexplored or if you will civilized/uncivilized galaxy.



Oh, and limit taxi and escort missions to well-traveled parts of the galaxy.




Adding to that I'd say... Make the galaxy big. And I mean BIG. MASSIVE. Humongous.

There is a limit to the organisational skills of the SLA. A big galaxy will be a curb-stomp in itself.

Of course there's the smart variant of the SLA. Usually the ones with a dead-end job and lots of frustration coupled with too much brains. These people are willing to teach themselves advanced Excel skills if need be to organize their conquests.

Luckily the Smart Sad Little chia pet (SSLA) always attracts other SSLA who happen to be just as ambitious. Then infighting will destroy these SSLA Empires in the long run.

I motion that a SGE constitutional convention be established via MSN-Chat, where representatives from each of the game's major powers is invited into a chat platform upon which to discuss changing the game.

However, delegates must have at least a "proficient" level of intelligence, meaning that Gamanche is not allowed to partake.

Narutard and Madace, I believe the three of us would make a good starting point for such a delegation!

Narutard thinks in terms of themepark mmo's and in terms of features.

Sorry, bye.

I have nor the will nor the time to explain the obvious.

So it's just you and I, manny.

[NARUTARD]

Narutard thinks in terms of themepark mmo's and in terms of features.

Sorry, bye.

I have nor the will nor the time to explain the obvious.

So it's just you and I, manny.

You go ahead and keep overthinking this to death. You can't ignore that which lays in front of you.

[Manganator]

Well... I had an idea that I wanted to refine. It's a "Frontier" idea.

The idea is that a moderately-sized "Frontier" will open every month or so... and that new players will be spawned there, but old players from the old space will not be able to access it. After 30 days or so, a bridge connecting the frontier to the main space will open, but have massive fuel cost (500 per journey or so, which decreases by 1 every time it is undertaken, gradually acclimating it to the main server), protecting the independence of the new territories.

In this way... new players will always be able to establish their empires. They will be spawned in fresh space... no longer will they be spawned in Sol, only to find every system for 30 hops in every direction colonized.

What are your thoughts?

[NARUTARD]

Well... I had an idea that I wanted to refine. It's a "Frontier" idea.

The idea is that a moderately-sized "Frontier" will open every month or so... and that new players will be spawned there, but old players from the old space will not be able to access it. After 30 days or so, a bridge connecting the frontier to the main space will open, but have massive fuel cost (500 per journey or so), protecting the independence of the new territories.

In this way... new players will always be able to establish their empires. They will be spawned in fresh space... no longer will they be spawned in Sol, only to find every system for 30 hops in every direction colonized.

What are your thoughts?

Sounds good if they got an actual high-quality in game tutorial to go with them so they stand a chance when the "big dogs" go to eat their faces.

[Manganator]

Sounds good if they got an actual high-quality in game tutorial to go with them so they stand a chance when the "big dogs" go to eat their faces.

This cannot become a system where the new corps just wait for the frontier to open, and then smash whoever is inside that frontier. If the fuel cost is not enough to prevent single corps from destroying all newcomers... additional game-mechanics will need to fill that void.

I am not saying that these noobie corps must be protected at all costs. I am not saying we should reward weakness. However, the strong among the new players must be given enough of an advantage to be able to weather the assaults of the larger powers.

[NARUTARD]

Sounds good if they got an actual high-quality in game tutorial to go with them so they stand a chance when the "big dogs" go to eat their faces.

This cannot become a system where the new corps just wait for the frontier to open, and then smash whoever is inside that frontier. If the fuel cost is not enough to prevent single corps from destroying all newcomers... additional game-mechanics will need to fill that void.

I am not saying that these noobie corps must be protected at all costs. I am not saying we should reward weakness. However, the strong among the new players must be given enough of an advantage to be able to weather the assaults of the larger powers.

Perhaps it could be whole separate galaxy's open and you would need to activate some sort of wormhole which only your ship could travel through which prevented you from camping one spot waiting w/ 12,000 nukes when the new area becomes open.

[MadAce]

Narutard thinks in terms of themepark mmo's and in terms of features.

Sorry, bye.

I have nor the will nor the time to explain the obvious.

So it's just you and I, manny.

You go ahead and keep overthinking this to death. You can't ignore that which lays in front of you.

It's not because you happen to be allergic (or so I'm assuming) to thought that you should oppose it in others.


Well... I had an idea that I wanted to refine. It's a "Frontier" idea.

The idea is that a moderately-sized "Frontier" will open every month or so... and that new players will be spawned there, but old players from the old space will not be able to access it. After 30 days or so, a bridge connecting the frontier to the main space will open, but have massive fuel cost (500 per journey or so), protecting the independence of the new territories.

In this way... new players will always be able to establish their empires. They will be spawned in fresh space... no longer will they be spawned in Sol, only to find every system for 30 hops in every direction colonized.

What are your thoughts?

How will the effect of that be more desirable than leave the entire galaxy open for exploration, with the fuel cost as the obstacle?

It requires more coding and tweaking which is more complexity which leaves more room for error. Less game mechanics is the only way to keep a sandbox from failing.


It could be nice, but only as an addition.


I extremely dislike the idea that players should be spread out. The very point of the high warp fuel cost is to keep them together and increase natural selection.


There should, of course, be an area allowing new players to hone their skills (UN territory). But for the sake of pushing people out into the galaxy these systems should yield less reward than the cost of invading them (for established players that is) and each system should rebang/disappear every X amount of time.




The ultimate way to get rid of unfair ganking is to introduce a two level SGE. One for corps, another for Empires. Both need each other, both compliment each other, and neither has anything to gain from attacking each other.


Think of it this way: Why doesn't the USS Ronald Reagan attack a fishing trawler? Because it doesn't have any reason to. In fact, launching a few jets would probably cost more than the whole fishing trawler.


SGE should become the same in the sense that there shouldn't be any gain for established Empires to destroy new players.




Ad Verbatim from The Ultimate Single Server and Starport Reemergence Idea:

4: Too much competition between the players.

This issue has plagued SGE since its inception. In the days of rebangs the problem wasn’t overly noticeable as games only lasted two weeks. But with the implementation of permaverses the gap between established and new players got all the more massive as older players had a lot more time to get ahead.

Hence the introduction of the Autonomy Idea. The concept in itself is simple. It’s the recognition of the fact that there are two types of players. Powerful and powerless players. The former usually battle it out in large wars over large parts of the galaxy. The former are challenged by trying to maintain a small empire.

The problem is that it is actually quite profitable for the veterans to attack the newbs as the assets the newbs hold are valuable to the veterans. With the difference that the veterans have a lot more resources to attack the newbs than the newbs have resources to defend themselves.

The solution is to separate the goals of both groups and give them a chance to co-exist.

What follows is a way to achieve this, although perhaps not the best way but it would still be feasible.

According to the idea there would be two types of player organizations. Corporations and Empires. Corporations are flexible in their goals and find it easy to incorporate new players. They operate in many ways like the current corporations. Developing in width, with several planets and not in depth (as this is impossible with current game mechanics).

Empires are fully geared towards combat and Empires and the owning of larger swats of the galaxy. They’re designed around harbouring corporations within their territory as Empires are not adept at maintaining old-style empires with hundreds of planets but concentrate on a few really well-developed planets.

It’s obvious Empires operate on a different gameplay mechanic than is currently known in SGE.

Here’s a description of the Autonomy System.

The galaxy is divided in regions. A region is a few systems grouped together sharing no characteristics other than that they’re bordering each other. There is one starport per region.

Once a colony is as well developed as it can be there is the option to have it become a city. Achieving this requires constant upkeep and hauling in resources during a certain time. If there is a certain percentage of all colonisable planets within a region developed to have a city it will be possible for the corporation owning those cities to buy the Starport. Then the region becomes autonomous and the corporation owning the region becomes an Empire. The planets that were cities become one single entity which shares all the resources produced instantly. If the players were smart in choosing which planets to make cities the resource deficiencies on the planets will cancel each other out and then the region will become self-sufficient requiring a lot less maintenance. No matter which planet within the region that is then entered, they’re all part of the same entity and share everything from resources, colonists to weapons. However, planets with a city will have a lot more options and abilities than planets in the region which only are colonies.
(The fact that there would be less things to track should decrease galaxy wide lag and decrease load on the server at each tick.)

VERY IMPORTANT is that it doesn’t matter if all planets in the region are owned by the corporation trying to become an Empire. It’s perfectly allowed for another corporation to have planets within this region. In fact, with the new gameplay mechanics it is encouraged to have a corporation within the region owned by an Empire, as the planets/colonies of a corporation have different abilities from planets/cities/colonies of an Empire.

When a corporation has become an Empire the players are subjected to different advantages and disadvantages.

VERY IMPORTANT is that the advantages of a corporation should be inverse to the disadvantages of an Empire.
In effect this means that all possible resources in SGE are divided between both types of organizations. If corps have an easy time producing resource type A then empires have a hard time producing resource A, while when Empires have an easy time producing resource B then corps should have a hard time producing resource B.
This will force both types of organisations to cooperate to reach their full potential.

On the other hand it should be excruciatingly hard (and especially inefficient) for Empires, which are militarily very powerful, to attack corporations and vice versa. If possible the combat between the two should be unpleasant.

[NARUTARD]

Narutard thinks in terms of themepark mmo's and in terms of features.

Sorry, bye.

I have nor the will nor the time to explain the obvious.

So it's just you and I, manny.

You go ahead and keep overthinking this to death. You can't ignore that which lays in front of you.

It's not because you happen to be allergic (or so I'm assuming) to thought that you should oppose it in others.

I'm just trying to think with the times friend. One step at a time ya can't just flop this huge list of ideas to turn the game donkey-backwards down and expect it to be made law. Now we've never chatted before so I don't know why you gotta go shunning me like I'm gonna flame you like some scrub. We're just thinking on 2 different levels thus you completely rejecting what I'm saying doesn't exactly make you look any better.

[MadAce]

You go ahead and keep overthinking this to death. You can't ignore that which lays in front of you.

It's not because you happen to be allergic (or so I'm assuming) to thought that you should oppose it in others.

I'm just trying to think with the times friend. One step at a time ya can't just flop this huge list of ideas to turn the game donkey-backwards down and expect it to be made law. Now we've never chatted before so I don't know why you gotta go shunning me like I'm gonna flame you like some scrub. We're just thinking on 2 different levels thus you completely rejecting what I'm saying doesn't exactly make you look any better.

No. Not one step at a time.

That is what made SGE what it is. A sandbox is a union of interconnected parts. Change one thing, and you change everything.

If you want to fix one thing, you should fix everything. If it were up to me Toonces would abandon SGE and only keep it running for revenue and then work on Starport 2.


It's as simple as that. The fact that you don't realize that concludes me that you should return to WoW, where your way of thinking is applicable.

My objective isn't to look good. My objective is to fix something. And the last thing I need is someone propagating the cause of the problem as being the solution.

[NARUTARD]

Oh ok I see what you're getting at now.

If it were that simple it would have been done by now. Clearly its an issue with the game programmers then.




Good luck with that. /salute

[gamanche]

/end topic, just another rant from madace and mangantor

[Manganator]

Get rid of pollution and consumables.
Add new planetary defenses including "walls", allow solar cannons to be deployed outside of the dome.

If we could somehow limit empire size based upon a decreasing morale per hop as mentioned, combine this with a new frontier system where noobs are spawned in a frontier distinctly separate from the rest of the server, to be added to the game after 60 days of autonomous existence.

Without the ability to conquer the entire server, empires would have a limit of 2 protectorates, and gain money into their bank accounts based upon the number of planets owned by their protectorates. Creating "Spheres of influence".

Give an option to economically dominate smaller corps... so with each invasion, the colony isn't taken, but rather "economically subjugated", giving the empire fixed income.

Create options for completely destroying planets except for the WF for mass xp and money, rather than occupying them in order to change the meaning of war... and give empires other things to fight over instead of just planets considering restrictions on size, including access to mines which farm special (Yet temporary) artifacts which give even larger bonuses.

Allow empires to have outpost planets outside of spheres of influence, which sap money from their banks (Cost money to maintain, giving an unlimited incentive for monetary gain), but provide nukebases in otherwise hostile territory and increase the reach and influence of the empires... In this way, the more money an empire has, the more outposts it can sustain outside traditional borders, giving incentives to dominate markets of other corporations and to enhance the prosperity of their "sub-corps" from which tribute is given.

And with a continuously growing galaxy... and empire size limits, the playerbase should expand indefinitely

[duece]

Problem 1) the game would be a lot funner if building and invading happened faster

Problem 2) fixing 1) would cause empires to grow out of control so you need a limit (either hard or soft)

Problem 3) fixing 2) would make it game over for people who hit the limit so you have to introduce a lot of new content for people who have maximum empires

Problem 4) fixing 3) is the hard part.

[JuliusCaesar]

Problem 1) the game would be a lot funner if building and invading happened faster

Problem 2) fixing 1) would cause empires to grow out of control so you need a limit (either hard or soft)

Problem 3) fixing 2) would make it game over for people who hit the limit so you have to introduce a lot of new content for people who have maximum empires

Problem 4) fixing 3) is the hard part.

This. How do we keep a quick invading/building dynamic interesting enough to facilitate satisfactory gameplay in the long-term?

simple. the concept of a pure competition market structure in microeconomics is that in a market without significant barriers to entry, a standardized product (colonies), and many competitors, no one firm can retain an economic profit in the long run, which here means dominance. what is the solution to this?

first we need significant competition. end the servers owned by 4 people and are like ghost towns, give this new server what the people want to draw them there. think 10k pop domes, no mods, no asteroids, remove some of the gayer layouts.

next we need to remove the barriers to entry. lower solar cannons, perhaps significantly boost their metal/shot cost or on this server, or go all the way back to one shot solars. now to balance for the builders. rush costs, build times, and resource requirements must be significantly lowered. then, pollution must be SEVERLY nerfed so that things dont die while invaders fight and to offset the slight lack of builders in hard-to-defend/retain circumstances. nukes and laser production times should also be boosted a little to match.

i also recommend a server layout similar to HC or another large, hard to dominate server. ports should be ubiquitous, but negs should not be sold (use photons for christ sake the solars will be nerfed). shield prices should also be SET AT A FIXED RATE!!! this way the rich empire owners wont get that advantage, fostering competition. IGS should lose some hardware holds and nukes must be fixed on this server, otherwise fighting will blow. i also recommend limiting corporation size, 5 players max, though without a need to clean and such circumstances as listed, i think 4 will be plenty. this server could also "grow" if a consensus is found on that topic which toones can implement fairly well.

with a pure competition environment and a large playerbase, problems 3 and 4 wont be an issue.

EDIT: i recommend some kind of periodic multi system disaster in the event that a central area stagnated, but this should be avoided and rarely used if the server is balanced properly.

[megiddo]

If it were up to me Toonces would abandon SGE and only keep it running for revenue

Isn't that what already happened?

Problem 1) the game would be a lot funner if building and invading happened faster

I mostly agree. The game is slow, time-consuming, and repetitive. I found it to be a chore, not a pastime. Now then, I don't think building times are excessive. I think the tedium sets in when you are hauling resources back and forth (for building) and running around to different systems to tend to your planets (pollution).

Speed up game: Remote Planet Settings

We should be able to change planet settings and give orders to the planet remotely, from anywhere (extreme solution), or from a starbase (more reasonable). Obviously, transferring population, resources, credits, or hardware will require you to be present at the planet.

Newbie protection: One Uninvadable Planet Per Player

I remember it took me a long time before I got my first weapons factory as a new player because my colonies were always being invaded overnight. If I had had one planet to cultivate in peace, I would've stayed longer in one place. This solution is hopefully simpler than other newbie-protection solutions.

Newbie protection: Killing Newbies No Longer Profitable

I can't think of a simple way to implement this, but the goals are simple: Newbies can kill each other and be rewarded. Big players won't be rewarded at all for killing newbies.

so you have to introduce a lot of new content

- NPC bounty hunting missions.
- A few higher-ranked NPCs.
- More "invading" options, like stealing stuff without capturing, stealing defenses, spying a dome (by leaving your ship and joining the colonists on Earth or a starport)
- Player-run market for selling ships, artifacts, weapons, hardware, population (maybe). Garage-sale format (sold from planets or starport) or local flea market format (sold from starbases).
- other sandbox stuff...

[MadAce]

Right now my greatest wish is for Toonces to stop reading the forums.

[Caia]

Didn't this very thing come up last year? And the year before? And pretty much every year since Broken Monkey took over literally all of P1?

While I agree with you, Mag, I'm afraid Toonces simply isn't willing to do what's needed to control mega-empires.

[NARUTARD]

Right now my greatest wish is for Toonces to stop reading the forums.

Yes because then he would stop seeing your gibberish.

[MadAce]

Yes because then he would stop seeing your gibberish.

Arguments advanced enough are indistinguishable from gibberish.


For a certain kind of people...


The sad thing is that I actually toned it down...

[duece]

I actually love the corporation vs empire idea, and the exploration/warp costs idea. Those solve two very important problems.

Wow lol, I remember that ultimate server idea thread when I had barely started playing the game. I have to give you credit, you came up with solutions to problems I only realized were there years later. One of the biggest flaws in the game is that pros and newbs alike are in the same colony business, so vets always have incentive to prey on the beginners. Corporations (your version) should be non-threatening from a military standpoint to empires, and depend on protection.

One way or another there has to be more features at the top and bottom that separates the aspirations of the haves and have-nots. I have some other ideas, but I won't list them right now.

The other problem is that the actual gameplay is unappealing in my opinion. There's already been a lengthy thread where I've expressed my opinion about this. But the less resistance people feel between the work they put in and the reward they get the funner the game is. If that resistance is too small or simplistic people get tired of it quickly, but the entry point of the game should go for mass appeal first, and funneling people into the rest of the game second.

There are also things you can do to make the real-time action more fluid. But there are plenty of discussions of that on these forums and it's not the fundamental issue with the game.